<p>For Ross, take a look at this:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2008.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2008.pdf</a></p>
<p>A list of the top hiring companies, average compensation/salaries/bonuses for BBA interns/graduates, MBA’s and Masters of Accounting graduates. It has all the recruiting information you need to know. :)</p>
<p>the most prestigious companies do not recruit Moo U
the slightly prestigious companies do not recruit Moo U either.
the rest of the companies flock to U of M way before (understatement) they go to Moo U (note the drastic difference in no. of companies)</p>
<p>2 implications:
If you are aiming for a prestigious job, you will get your shot at Michigan (less shot from LSA) but you’ll need to network your butt off for just one interview even if you have a 4.0 at Moo U. And you better ace that interview because you wont have alums inside the company pulling for you when it comes time to decide who gets the offer… </p>
<p>If you are aiming for a normal job, it is more likely that you get one at Michigan than at Moo U because so many more companies are recruiting you.</p>
<p>Wow bearcats, I see that you really just have no respect for MSU at all, it’s in your wolverine blood I guess 
.</p>
<p>" (you can succeed no matter where you go (ok as long as the school is good enough))</p>
<p>"I used to be hold that naive view… You’ll change your view after going through just ONE recruiting year. Maybe even the first career fair of the year. You will clearly see what corporates executives think are top/good universities and what they think are cow colleges. "</p>
<p>I would say this is true if you want to get a job straight out of college, but there are still some good recruiters on the MSU list. But what ab said really holds true for applying to graduate school (you can succeed no matter where you go) , I can’t tell you the number of guys I know that went to MSU and had 3.7+ gpa’s, and went onto a top 5 ranked program (i.e. MiT for engineering, Harvard for Medical School and Business, Stanford for Business and Engineering, Wharton, Kellogg, Yale Law, just to name a few). </p>
<p>It’s really a numbers game, especially for med-school where GPA and your MCAT matter far more than the school you came from. My friend had two brothers who were applying to med-school from MSU and they had around a 3.9’ish gpa (don’t remember the MCAT, but it was pretty high), and at the same time the son of my dad’s friend was applying to med-school at the same time from Michigan with a 3.6’ish gpa and a similar MCAT. One of the MSU guys went to U of M, the other went to U Penn, while the Michigan guy went to MSU. I’m guessing all three put in the same amount of work, if not the U of M guy probably had to work harder especially in some of the Chem classes. But what ab said “you can succeed no matter where you go (ok as long as the school is good enough” certainly holds true for grad school, especially if you come from a good state school. </p>
<p>I think the argument bearcats was trying to make was that U of M is better than MSU, a different caliber for undergrad, which is obvious, but don’t at all think that MSU is a bad school, it’s actually a very good school. Many of my friends bounce around the idea of going to MSU for pre-med over Michigan just because many of their older brothers did it with success, they know that if they put in the effort they are going to end up with a very high (3.8+) gpa, and that is appealing to many of them.
And what’s with the Moo U, I’ve never heard that term before, I get the agriculture/cows thing, ok whatever fancies you. I guess you’re just peeved that Michigan lost to MSU in basketball and football this past season 
!</p>
<p>“People portray MSU as a bad school b/c Wolverines are like that … arrogant and condescending … they think of U of M as the best in the state (at the very least) … but U of M is a good school, so is MSU.”</p>
<p>I don’t think people portray MSU as a bad school, but MSU is not comparable to Michigan. Comparing MSU to Michigan is like comnparing UC-Riverside to Cal or Boston University to Harvard. Yes, Riverside and BU are good universities, as is MSU, but they are not elite. Michigan is. Yes, there are several departments at MSU that are better, just as some departments at BU are better than their counterparts at Harvard. But by and large, the majority of programs are stronger at Michigan. Michigan IS the best school in the state…by quite a margin. That is not arrogance, it is reality.</p>
<p>“MSU definitely has some strengths. It is much cheaper than U of M and it can attract people to go there because they’re incredibly generous with merit scholarships.”</p>
<p>MSU is not much cheaper than Michigan. That’s a total myth. MSU costs roughly $21,500 for in-state students as opposed to $24,500 for in-staters. Now, $86,000 over 4 years is obviously less than $98,000 over four years, but I would not describe MSU as being “much” cheaper than Michigan.</p>
<p>“And as the person above mentioned, some of its programs are ranked higher than U of M, and U of M doesn’t even offer nuclear physics.”</p>
<p>Michigan may not offer Nuclear Physics, but Michigan is #1 in Nuclear Engineering and top 5 in Atomic Physics. </p>
<p>“Even though it used to be a farming school, MSU is NOT a bad school.”</p>
<p>Nobody said MSU was bad, but Michigan is clearly better. </p>
<p>“And, as for the Trucker Max thing … darn it why did I ditch my opportunity to study econ and math at Chicago!?”</p>
<p>Chicago and Michigan are peers and in your case, Michigan was “much cheaper” than Chicago. A $130,000 difference between two top 25 universities is very significant. $12,000 between a top 25 university like Michigan and a top 100 university like MSU is not. </p>
<p>“No … you can succeed no matter where you go (ok as long as the school is good enough) … it’s what you make of your 4 years just like in HS. MSU may not be as highly ranked as U of M, but like U of M, they have also had Churchill, Gates, and Marshall Scholars … which are really prestigious awards and some of them allow you to study in the UK for grad school (we’re talking about Oxford and Cambridge) without paying a single penny. And those MSU students who have won those awards competed in the same arena as students from other top privates/publics and the Ivies.”</p>
<p>I agree, but a school like Michigan opens more doors.</p>
<p>First of all… not everyone goes to grad school. And a good gpa from Michigan is taken more seriously than a good gpa from Moo U.</p>
<p>For those who don’t, which is the majority, I dont care if you have a 4.0 at Moo U, you aren’t getting an interview at Goldman Sachs or Mckinsey unless you network your butt off to get your resume read by the right person, because they dont even acknowledge the fact that Moo U exist and recruit there, same with almost all pretigious companies. Apply online through the general pool??? Good luck… while a Michigan student with a 3.6 could go to the career fair, drop off his resume, and probably expect a call for an interview.</p>
<p>Less talk normal companies… not everyone go after the prestige/money…
How much more likely do you think you’ll get a job if there are more than 5 times the number of companies recruiting you?
Why do you think so many more top companies and regular companies recruit Michigan but not Michigan State? because they like wolverine more than Spartan?</p>
<p>“I guess you’re just peeved that Michigan lost to MSU in basketball and football this past season !”</p>
<p>wow what a perfect setup for this quote on my shirt…“at the end of the day… I still go to Michigan, and we’ll get jobs” XD
by the way…67-28-5… oh… it’s 67-29-5 because you won the game last year… the first time in forever… oh but wait…remember spartan bob??</p>
<p>This reminds me of the comparison that Virginia Tech students try to make against UVA. Being an athletic competitor and an academic competitor are two completely different things.</p>
<p>/facepalm, wahoomb, the athletics thing was irrelevant, but hey it’s nice they went to the finals during March Madness :), just jokin. Again, MSU isn’t the same caliber for undergrad as Michigan, it’s like what Alexandre said, kind of UC-Riverside to UC-Berkely. Btw, if you didn’t know Michigan is one of the schools I plan on applying along with some ivies, I support Michigan much more as a school than MSU (my dad was a prof at Michigan Engineering, I used to live in Ann Arbor for a good part of my childhood). But, I still felt like defending many of the smart MSU alumni I know.</p>
<p>Re: Michigan State “Certainly the second best school in Michigan for undergrad”</p>
<p>That <em>could</em> be an arbitrary assessment these days. Last few years the entering class to Grand Valley State University in Grand Rapids had higher GPA/ACT/SAT scores than Mi State, second only to U of M, I believe (for what it’s worth…). Which is not to say either GVSU or Mi State are in U of M’s league on a number of fronts. Which is also not to say either isn’t a great choice for some candidates, depending on program, profile and preference (and most particularly for those who may have difficulty communicating clearly with folks on a college discussion board and who consistently appear confused, appalled or confronted by factual information and attempts to deliver logical responses : P Ok. Just kidding.)
But in terms of the “brand” value nationally and internationally, there really is no comparison. And the brand is not just built on “wolverine arrogance” either. HR folks and recruiters track the success rates of candidates from different programs and develop recruiting/hiring preferences based on a historical performance metrics. They don’t just go with the proverbial hearsay format popularized on this thread by the now notorious Coolbreeze: eg. “I hear x is a really great/bad/whatever school/is equal to/has classes taught by TAs/blah blah blah).”
There’s frequently some analysis involved; some evidence of capability gathered! (Same is true of performance tracking of U of M students from various high schools, which is why high schools used to have “weight” in the admissions formula. Many HR departments use a weighting formula similar to U of M’s former formula in making board hires.)</p>
<p>At any rate, the real question is never which school is best; the question is which school is “best-for-the-individual-in-question.” But I do think there is a level of exhaustion on this board with this hearsay/nonsensical approach to evaluating fit and the volume of ridiculous utterances regarding same.</p>
<p>“the entering class to Grand Valley State University in Grand Rapids had higher GPA/ACT/SAT scores than Mi State”</p>
<p>This is actually untrue, from USNWR, 25-75’th percentile MSU: (23-27), GVSU: (22-26). That is, neither are good, but MSU is the better. Average gpa at GVSU:3.5, MSU:3.6, from the Princeton Review.</p>
<p>I’ve heard some pretty good things about GVSU, but I couldn’t see anyone making an argument that it is better than MSU, especially in rep, maybe a better ‘fit’ for some. In my honest opinion, and in the opinion of my class mates, the list for best schools in Michigan goes like this (in terms of overall academic quality and reputation).</p>
<ol>
<li>University of Michigan</li>
<li>Michigan State</li>
<li>Michigan Tech </li>
<li>(tie) Kalamazoo College, Albion College</li>
<li>(tie) U of M- Dearborn/Flint, Grand Valley</li>
<li>(tie) Western Mich, Eastern, Central, Northern, Wayne State
7… goes on</li>
</ol>
<p>Although, spots 4-7 are all debatable, I think that this list is pretty accurate.</p>
<p>Off topic, but was recently thinking about Michigan top universities… and concluded if ranked ( based overall) it would more than likely resemble the following:
1.University of Michigan- Ann Arbor
2.Michigan State University
3.Kalamazoo College
3.Michigan Techinal University
4.Western Michigan University
4.Wayne State University, Grand Valley State University
5.Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan
6.UM-Dearborn/ Flint</p>
<p>Around 2% of the UM undergrad graduating class will end up with jobs at Ibanks and Big Consulting. The other 98% are going to be working with MSU type grads and many will be working for them so I’d get a little more humble. Just because you might know somebody that was one of the 10 or so that got hired by Goldman last year does not make you one of them.</p>
<p>barrons, roughly 40%-50% of Ross students, 15%-20% of Econ majors and 10% of Engineering majors end up working for IBanks and management consulting firms. Those numbers are very significant, especially when you consider that 50% of Econ majors are pre-law and have no interest in IBanking or Consulting and over 75% of Engineering majors are purely interested in careers in Engineering.</p>
<p>MSU has some good programs,like the honors program, the supply chain program. but i think what’s really annoying to michigan students is that like 5% of msu kids who did get into michigan think/make it seem like they were so smart they picked msu over michigan.</p>
<p>Yeah, I don’t really see how it would be a smart decision, especially when the difference in cost is minimal.</p>
<p>Family influence? Maybe if someone had parents who were Spartan alumni, they would encourage him/her to go to State instead of UMich. I know quite a few people at my school who do that. (seems unwise, but that’s their choice)</p>
<p>What separates Michigan from MSU isn’t student quality but academic quality and reputation. Michigan’s PA rating is 4.4, MSU’s is 3.5.</p>
<p>I know it’s quite popular for someone who has a parent working at MSU to choose it over U of M, they pay only half tuition.</p>
<p>This is the correct ranking:</p>
<ol>
<li>UM-Ann Arbor</li>
<li>Michigan State University</li>
<li>Kalamazoo > Hope > Albion</li>
<li>Michigan Technical University</li>
<li>UM-Dearborn, Kettering University</li>
<li>Wayne State University, Grand Valley State University</li>
<li>Directional Schools (Western > Central > Northern > Eastern)</li>
<li>Others including Ferris State, Oakland, etc…</li>
</ol>
<p>According to the last Ross profile about 70 Ross grads went to the major Ibanks and Big consulting companies such as Bain. </p>
<p>[Employment</a> Profile - University of Michigan Business School](<a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/TopHiringCompanies.htm?StudentType=BBAGrads]Employment”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/TopHiringCompanies.htm?StudentType=BBAGrads)</p>
<p>Engineering is hard to guess but about 50 engineering grads took jobs in the Northeast including Master’s and PhD’s. </p>
<p>So we are at around 100 undergrads from business and engineering at the major Ibanks and consulting firms that WOW everyone. The rest might be at regionals and the Accenture type consutling firms–not that it’s bad at all. That’s about 1.67%. Add some randon econ and other majors getting major IB and consulting jobs and there you have 200 or so out of around 6000.</p>
<p>lol…this thread is way too long…especially considering that it was started by one of the most idiotic claims I have read so far on CC…I don’t think this ‘ring of fire’ dude should be taken seriously…</p>