Third child college search - Looking for outdoorsy and good financial aid or merit [CA resident, 3.98 GPA, 34 ACT, <$15k]

Two comments on size-

1- a college with a med school, law school, b-school etc. (sometimes not even located in the same place as the college of arts and sciences) is going to have a deceptively large “enrollment”. There will be zero interaction with those grad students; they occupy different physical locations; unless a student takes advantage of the van/bus service to specifically go to one of those buildings, the enrollment won’t impact his/her experience at all.

2- My HS had aprox. 1150 students per grade, and we were all on the same physical campus. A college of that size has a completely different look and feel than a HS. Most high schools don’t offer 12 person seminars taught by two professors (I took one in college); most high schools don’t have weekly office hours where even a student in a 200 person lecture hall can have downtime with a professor asking for help or chatting about that week’s reading; most high schools don’t have a dedicated team of professionals who understand how to get hired by the Peace Corps, TFA, win a Truman/Fulbright, etc.

So encourage any HS kid who is worried about size (too big particularly) to spend time hanging out on a college campus to really experience what enrollment size means. My HS (very large) was on one city block and occupied the entire space with pathways and concrete between buildings and doorways. The green space was the football field behind the hulking buildings. There was one cafeteria which was always bedlam no matter the time of day. The library (not multiple libraries, archives, rare book collections,) was a cave-like place where you went to retrieve a book, not a place you’d want to sit in for any length of time, etc.

This is not what a big college campus is about! Some have botanical gardens; museums, beautifully manicured green spaces, gorgeous libraries, separate athletic facilities and recreation areas, acres and acres of land in addition to the developed portions of campus. Multiple food and commercial options. Separate buildings for sculpture, photography, dance, theater and music practice rooms. Labs- so many labs. My HS (at the time considered one of the best in the state) had four labs- one for bio, one for chem, one for physics, and one for the “new” computer science discipline. A similar sized college now is going to have psych labs with animals (and psych labs for human, not animal behavior studies), multiple spaces for all the other sciences.

My point? I’d encourage a kid to hang out at a few big colleges before using that as a screener. I was a Classics major at a U which at the time had over 7,000 total students (undergrad, grad) and a “large” class in my department would have been 40 students and held in a tiny lecture hall. A more typical class was held in a seminar room around a table.

Size is easy to determine (more so than cultural fit for sure) but not that helpful!

100% and this kid would be a great candidate for Kenyon if they like it.

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School itself would be a great match, the immediate location is WAY gritty and urban than UVM – maybe worth checking out if it has a giant outing club with lots of activities though (possible) I know RIT has a pretty big one with pretty regular weekend trips so that could mitigate it. The campus itself is pretty leafy and green!

Weird, since SO urban, but Tufts would be a lovely match of a school, but obviously in a super urban location. they have a big climbing presences and outdoorsy kids - https://tuftsmountainclub.org/ Outdoor Education Programs | AS&E Students

These only makes sense if want to prioritize “medium” and “exploratory” over rural AND NPC works

Yeah, the immediate setting for Rochester is probably not a great fit (although it does feel sort of on its own island, almost literally in the sense the river curves around campus), but there is a lot to do outdoors in that general area. When we visited there was in fact mention of a very active/popular outdoors club, I believe this is it:

Exactly. I think particularly when cost is a major concern, it pays to sort of prioritize your preferences. What would you be willing to compromise on if everything else looked good and the price was right? What would really be a dealbreaker? And of course you can have some flexibility, being willing to entertain different mixes of pros and cons.

Any willingness to compromise/be flexible just makes it easier to find schools that will meet a tight budget. And to not waste your time with those which realistically won’t be affordable.

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Regarding school size, if your daughter is spatially oriented, she might find it interesting to look into physical dimensions in the form of campus acreage. U.S. News provides a convenient resource through which to do this (e.g., https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-puget-sound-3797). As a basis for comparison, a high school of 3,000 students may reside on 60 acres.

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I also like to suggest just looking at campuses using something like Google Maps’s Satellite layer, possibly also some Streetview as well. Not exactly a complete substitute for a visit, but it isn’t carefully controlled in the way “virtual tours” will be (apparently every college in the northern part of the country is perpetually in a state of the trees either in full spring bloom or in full fall color!).

One thing that becomes apparent is some campuses have an area in which the main residences and academic buildings are concentrated, and then other outlying areas for athletic fields, sometimes natural spaces, and so on. Others more spread out the buildings across their footprint. And of course variations in between. I found that during visits, this would then play a role in how the campus felt.

Just something to think about.

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I had thought about Rochester too - it has the “mid-sized” attribute, and the flexible curriculum is great for exploration as already noted. However, I wouldn’t commit there unless the financial aid offer is solidly within budget, not borderline. They have a reputation for “front-loading” need-based aid to get students in the door, and then getting stingier over the four years. They definitely aren’t alone in this, and one way to look for it is to check out the Common Data Set. Section H is about financial aid. The left column gives numbers for first-year students, and the middle column covers all full-time undergraduates. The more those numbers differ, the more reason there is to suspect that your aid package might get “squeezed” in subsequent years. (URoch’s CDS is here)

That said, I really like URoch; it’s where I probably should have gone to college, if I hadn’t gotten into a super-reach that I probably shouldn’t have gone to, lol. My California kid and I visited campus, and their info session was the best one I attended in all of my visits with both kids - they did a great job of explaining their philosophy and what distinguishes Rochester from other schools. My kid got in, but it just didn’t resonate enough with them to overcome the location and distance from home. I would guess that the likelihood of your kid feeling the same way is pretty high, but it doesn’t hurt to check it out!

Seconding AustenNut’s mention of Cornell College in Iowa. Since your daughter loves the block schedule idea, this is another option like Colorado College, but probably an admissions safety even with taking need-aware admissions into account. They even have an ABET-accredited general engineering major. (I know you said your kid isn’t considering direct-admit engineering, but for a STEMMy kid like yours, maybe a less-specialized major like this, that she could choose once there, wouldn’t be completely off the table.) I realize that when one looks for outdoorsy schools, one’s first thought generally isn’t “Iowa!”… but the outdoor opportunities actually seem quite good: Cornell Outdoor Education. Plus, the block plan allows for a lot of fieldwork-type classes, as you’ve likely already noted at CC.

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Thanks for all the ideas. I was trying to reply to everyone specifically but might be easier to post a general reply.

To clarify in terms of price, we feel pretty sure she could get into a few Cal States she likes (Humboldt, Chico) and maybe some UCs as well (Santa Cruz, Davis), but with our first two those were too expensive, so what we are really looking for is schools that are known to be generous and will be a better price than the Cal State schools.

In terms of prioritizing her preferences: By “outdoorsy” she is thinking: location in or near natural areas for hiking/walking directly from campus (she won’t have a car), robust outdoor center that has organized camping, backpacking, etc. that is not competitive to be a part of, and at least some fellow students who would also enjoy these things. Bonus: “place-based” classes / classes that take advantage of outdoor surroundings. On the same vein of “outdoorsy,” what she does NOT want is super urban.

In terms of preferences she is willing to compromise on: she ideally wants larger than her high school (3000). She pictures 3000 - 10,000 “medium sized" and perfect. But she is now realizing that a lot of schools that she likes in terms of nature access and small class sizes are smaller schools so she has become more open to that.

All of your feedback is super helpful and we are adding lots of these schools to a list of schools to check out! Thanks!

Editing to add: I know I need to run the NPC at all these campuses. My post was really thinking about which schools to start a list of to run NPCs in the first place. My older kids wanted large and urban so we did not look into any of these types of schools before and these smalls schools are new to us.

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Along these lines, I believe your daughter will appreciate colleges with an available program in geosciences.

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On the one hand, I don’t think the caution about super-small schools is unfounded; they can get a little cabin-fever-y over time (and studying abroad, and other term-away options, often play an important role in giving students a break from that).

On the other hand, I think the whole “not smaller than my high school” metric can be a little deceptive… because in most high schools, a strong student’s community of academic peers is much smaller than the school as a whole, so comparing the overall size of a college cohort to the overall size of a high school one is more apples-to-oranges than most students realize.

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I think the question will be - do you qualify for free tuition in-state?

UCD and UCSC will be out of reach ($20K+) just for room and board.

Some of the Cal States won’t.

For full tuition coverage at Humboldt, you need:

Have a Student Aid Index of 7000 or less. FAFSA filers must be receiving Pell.

Given your budget will only cover Room and Board (at some schools), determining if you qualify for free tuition would be step one.

That was extremely helpful. Like to use Rochester as an example, it has the outdoor club which is fine for organized weekend day trips and such, but is not a good choice for simply being able to walk/hike directly from campus into a natural setting.

And your multiphase process makes a lot of sense. We’re sort of at the brainstorming possible ideas phase, which is fine. At some point you can filter the most promising ideas using NPCs, but you don’t have to do that all at once.

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By the way, I am trying to avoid overloading you with reachy options, but Carleton has a lovely and LARGE arboretum, and they very much use it as an outdoor classroom area:

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When you mentioned “place-based” classes, I thought of Northern Arizona University, which has the Grand Canyon Semester.

Courses and Schedules | University Honors College

NAU offers an automatic 40% WUE discount, plus the Excellence scholarship of $8,500 per year for an unweighted core GPA of 3.75 or above.

Western Undergraduate Exchange (WUE) | Tuition savings at NAU

So I think tuition would end up being around $9,644.

The cheapest dorm is the discounted triple, for $5,682.

It looks like the cheapest meal plan is $2,745 per semester.

Those direct costs add up to $20,816. Perhaps you could cover the difference between $21k and your budget with need aid, more scholarships, loans, or a job during the summer or during the school year.

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With respect to screening, perhaps no more than a dozen states represent great destinations for your daughter’s preferences. If you can identify these states, your search will be simplified.

OK, so another college that occurred to me is Susquehanna University. Among other things, they have a field station on campus:

In general, that is a lovely part of Pennsylvania, a very scenic river valley among low mountains. There is a lot to do outdoors very close to campus:

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As an aspect to consider as you get deeper into your research, incoming Hamilton students can choose a five-day outdoor orientation trip in the Adirondacks, which might include activities such as hiking, canoeing, rock climbing and sea kayaking:

https://www.hamilton.edu/firstyear/orientation/trips/adirondack-adventure

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My student’s a current student at Whitman - when they were looking at colleges they were seeking a school where they could continue to be outdoorsy, and wanted a LAC as they didn’t know yet what they might major in. We also needed to stick to a particular budget, and Whitman met it.

Here is a comment I wrote describing the incredible outdoor access, education, and opportunities there (my student doesn’t have a car, and it’s not an impediment to being super outdoors)

This is a comment I wrote about Whitman’s Early Financial Aid Guarantee; I can’t exactly remember the GPA of my student (around 3.95-4.0 maybe—in honors classes, at a school that doesn’t offer AP) and they had a 790/750 SAT score. They received Whitman’s top merit award.

And here’s some info I’ve linked previously on their Environmental Studies program and their fantastic Semester in the West program….

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@green1724 It would help others here help you if you mention whether the net price calculators on the various colleges in your first post and those suggested by others in the thread indicate net price within your price limit.

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I asked ChatGPT it suggested adding Sewanee to the list you’ve already generated (Chat suggest those you’d already listed too. It also suggested CalPoly SLO.

This was the actual list: Likely Merit Wins

  • Sewanee

  • Denison

  • Wooster

  • St. Olaf

Strong Targets

  • Vermont

  • Denver

  • Grinnell

Safeties (financial)

  • Arizona

  • Utah

Reaches

  • Colorado College

  • Cal Poly SLO