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Sorry you are taking it that way but I am not really attacking you in any way. I am just disagreeing with you… maybe you misread or misinterpreted my posts again?</p>
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Holistic admissions and other Asian applicants hurt Asian applicants. If fewer Asians applied fewer Asians would be rejected and the Asian admission rate would increase.</p>
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Not all, yes, but some. And yes,that is what I’ve been asserting.</p>
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I was talking about MIT.</p>
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And since i’m a junior I would not know as much as a senior?</p>
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We can extend our argument to mistakes/geographic preferences/socioeconomic AA (which makes the most sense) if you want.</p>
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Yes, it is in favor of AA, because if AA was eliminated, then the number of black and hispanic people admitted would decrease. </p>
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Most of the evidence is obviously circumstantial because schools do not release this information. However, you can tell that most CCers think that AA has a big impact on admissions–just look at the comments “chancing” a minority. It is our experience with reading stats on CC and having many friends and classmates who have applied to and gone to college that it does have an impact on acceptances .</p>
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Because a lot of the people in direct contact with me seem to be outliers, when compared to applicants on CC</p>
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<p>Not that I entirely agree with Narcissa’s views, but in her defense I’d say this constitutes a personal attack. </p>
<p>@ Newjack: So I have little interest in engaging in another epic battle with you 
but in skimming through your posts I must say I was nearly offended by #71 in particular –</p>
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<p>What’s that supposed to mean?</p>
<p>@PlattsburghLoser: Welcome to CC. You’ve missed out on some lengthy AA debates in the past, so if you’d care to, skim through the “Fastest Growing Ethnic Category At Great Colleges: Race Unknown” thread. Some good arguments, from both sides, presented there. That and I’d be happy to debate against a fresh perspective, so feel free to challenge me on any of the past things I’ve posted there. </p>
<p>Bonus points if you can do it without being grossly condescending.</p>
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And that’s why you have been wrong.</p>
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Well you are talking about something you have not personally participated in.</p>
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Most CC’ers do not understand Affirmative Action. That’s why we see comments like this, “We can extend our argument to mistakes/geographic preferences/socioeconomic AA (which makes the most sense) if you want.”
Since the Bakke case, Affirmative Action has always taken into account geography and socio-economic class. Also, I cannot believe you are basing your whole opinion of Affirmative Action on what you see on this forum…</p>
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Why would you assume CC’ers to be the norm?</p>
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Sorry, but those are not personal attacks. However, she can choose to receive them that way but that is her own deal… Do you see me taking her assertions that underrepresented minorities cannot get in on their own merits personally?</p>
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Well that’s what happens when you skim. You read things out of context…</p>
<p>Anyways, she’s a girl and she is diminishing the accomplishments of other girls including herself.</p>
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It only appears he is being condescending because the person he is debating with is grossly uniformed.</p>
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<p>I couldn’t have said it better myself.</p>
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And have I ever said that all underrepresented minorities cannot get in on their own merits?</p>
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And you are very naive to think that (edit) **some **URMs can get in without AA being the “push” factor. If that was true, why would there need to be AA in the first place?</p>
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So? Reading about college applications on CC and looking at information online is pretty much similar to actually filling out an application and sending it in the mail.</p>
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Care, then, to enlighten me on how URMs with 1700 SAT scores are able to get into an elite college when this is next to impossible for white or asian applicants? Are URMs inherently more “interesting” than whites or asians?</p>
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<p>For the sake of the ten character limit, it seems as if you are suggesting the former.</p>
<p>emphasis on all; i do not believe that all or even most underrepresented minorities cannot get in on their own merits</p>
<p>gb. perhaps i wasn’t clear, or you can stop twisting my words</p>
<p>this thread is pointless now because nobody is saying anything new and all we’re doing is attacking each other.</p>
<p>But I think the reason the rejections hurt so much and make students so angry when another student who seems less qualified is admitted is that it ISN’T FAIR.</p>
<p>And this experience, for many students (especially those who have been well-protected from life’s adversities, and who haven’t had a bolt-from-the-blue accident or illness affect their lives) is the first experience with the truism that life isn’t fair. You’ve heard it said, but deep down you thought you were playing a game, and if you played by all the rules, and played hard, the referees and scorekeepers would award you your well-deserved win. And it didn’t happen. And it sucks. And it makes you mad. </p>
<p>Your anger is understandable, and CC is a good place to vent. But this is one of the hardest lessons to learn. The really hard part? Getting over it and doing your best and continuing to strive even when you know that it may not pay off in the way you want, because life isn’t fair. But that’s what you have to do. </p>
<p>In 4 years you may not get a job because somebody who is slightly less qualified is the nephew of another manager in the company. Not fair. But that doesn’t mean you are going to starve to death in the cold. You’ll find another job, and you’ll have a great life.</p>
<p>At some point in life many people start doing things because the intrinsic value is there for them, whether it is working, studying, volunteering, or spending time with friends and family. That’s when the sting of life’s not being fair gets a little less painful. Because you realize it’s not a game you can win. </p>
<p>Play for fun. You’ll enjoy it more.</p>
<p>Once more - I really understand your hurt and anger. But life will go on, and if you embrace your other opportunities once you have mourned the loss of this dream, you’ll have a great life. If you let this disappointment make you bitter and cynical, then you really have “lost.”</p>
<p>Ah, Narcissa has left for good probably, but I want to ask her: has she ever interacted with someone (her own age, probably) outside her social class?</p>
<p>Should I be standing up for a random stranger? Well, since I had some bad experience on CC with people accusing me of stupid stuff without knowing me at all, and others who had been kind. So…
^Galoisien, I am guessing you are from a prep school right? Narcissa as far as I know is from a public school like me and believe me from my personal view point public school kids have gone through it all as far as I come from. There is not a kid from my group of friends who hasn’t held an after school job. I had held 2 since my dad died.
You guys have been real harsh on Narcissa period, twisting her words. I hv nothing against AA myself and so it seems Narcissa doesn’t either frm some posts I read so far. My gosh you will be calling her racist afterwards! White guy calling an Asian girl racist, heavens!
And another thing, you guys say people are judging others who got in without knowing the whole deal beyond their scores and stuff. Kettle calling the pot black since you have made some random accusations without knowing Narcissa and whoever else got the bite here.
Period. Also it may seem some of us are hung on SAT Reasoning test and SAT subject tests scores. But in my own public school it was the only avenue for some of us to prove our aptitude since some our school didn’t have AP courses or some of the higher prep courses other schools had. </p>
<p>Stop cyber bullying random people.</p>
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See this is why your perspective on Affirmative Action is naive, uninformed, ignorant, etc. </p>
<p>I am pretty sure you are referencing that one Hispanic poster who started a thread to encourage others who do not necessarily meet the schools average test scores to go ahead an apply to Stanford (and other prestigious schools) because they maybe accepted like he was.</p>
<p>I really like how you and may other CC’ers conveniently point to his test scores as a means to diminish his accomplishments and to make it appear as though he did not deserve to go to Stanford. What is incredibly disappointing to see is that these supposedly intelligent kids on CC demonstrate their naitivity by ignoring the fact that this one Hispanic kid took advantage of all of the few opportunities presented to him and even created some for himself. You all love to overlook the fact that the kid went to a terrible inner city school, had a near perfect GPA, took the hardest classes available to him, had extraordinary extracurriculars, probably wrote a well-written, interesting essay given the fact that he is a good writer and has many interesting experiences to tell admissions officers about.</p>
<p>You all ought to be embarassed for overlooking these things just so that you can diminish someone else’s accomplishments. This is incredibly shameful behavior.</p>
<p>Even if you did not know all this, Narcissa, why would you readily believe that underrepresented minorities are routinely accepted with 1700 SAT scores? Sometimes the readiness of many CC posters to gobble up stories about the inherent “inferiority” of underrepresented minorities worries me… If I am not mistaken someone in this thread started an entire thread about how men are inherently better at math and sciences than women are simply because there are more male USAMO finalists… I do not understand how people fail to realize that it is these sorts of stereotypes that are hindering many, in this case women, from reaching their full potential.</p>
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No one is twisting her words. She probably thinks we are though because she does not realize that we are mainly discussing what she has been implying in her posts not what she has actually said.</p>
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That’s not the issue. Narcissa has suggested and even confirmed that she believes that Affirmative Action is the “sole” factor that allows underrepresented minorities to get into highly selective schools. She even said that, regardless of her qualifications, if she were accepted into MIT it would be because she was a girl and not because she was qualified.</p>
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You are implying that Asians cannot be racist and that all Whites males are racist…</p>
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Not true. What have we been accusing her of other than that she is uninformed about Affirmative Action and college admissions? In many of her posts she reaffirms that she is uninformed on these matter.</p>
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Narcissa is not being bullied. People are just disagreeing with her opinions and trying to convince her to at least become more informed before expressing such strong opinions.</p>
<p>Here is the Hispanic student Narcissa and many other CC’ers are asserting to be the normal URM applicant:</p>
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<p>You really have to be kidding yourself if you think such an applicant would not have been accepted had he or she been White or Asian. </p>
<p>I would bet you anything that this kid wrote a well-written and interesting essay. I would also bet that he had glowing recommendations. Look at the wealth of experience he has to draw from. I doubt this kid wrote about the time he got the game winning goal or how did “research” at some lab or how he “learned” about poverty by going to a soup kitchen a couple times or how he did something to get into college but then realized that it had greater value (Amazing Asian student from my friend’s school near perfect GPA and test scores and “good” ECs wrote an essay about how he started volunteering at a soup kitchen just to get into good colleges but then realized how great of an experience it ended up being. No suprise here that he was rejected from all of the Ivies he applied to… he ended up at Boston College, which is still a good school.)</p>
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This is pretty much the embodiment of naitivity on CC.</p>
<p>Hispanic applicant:
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<p>Response:
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<p>Hispanic applicant:
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<p>Way to go CC’ers…</p>
<p>Ugh, new Jack88 I am not playing your game. I didn’t call anyone racist or implying so. Now you are twisting my words 
Peace out.</p>
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<p>In which case, let me be the first to thank you all for being so kind as to spend several pages’ worth of posts trying to engage someone so “grossly uninformed” that you simply can’t help but be rude and insulting in the process. Because, y’know… the Internets is serious business.</p>
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<p>Well, you’ve accused her of being incapable of basic reading comprehension, for one.</p>
<p>Seriously, whether or not you agree with someone, is it that hard to stay civil?</p>
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See ya. I did not twist your words at all. Next time choose your words more carefully so that you do not imply things you do not mean to. ;)</p>
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Why should we allow such strong, uninformed opinions to go unchallenged? I think it’s pretty safe to say that not challenging strong, uninformed opinions is against the societal good. </p>
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Did I? No. Even if I had it does appear that she is not understanding what we are saying. She has responded to many of my posts with irrelevant comments, like “it was sarcasm,” which have led me to believe that she is not understanding what many of the posters have been saying to her.</p>
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<p>I am from a public school in the middle of nowhere (Maine).</p>
<p>Last year my family had no income but our child support. </p>
<p>Perhaps you should reconsider your assumptions. And oh please I’m Asian too.</p>
<p>While Narcissa is lamenting about “underqualified” people attending MIT and ‘ousting’ “more qualified” applicants (because Narcissa knows everything about being an AdCom officer, right?) I cry for a friend who’s an exceptional athlete with an extremely insightful and promising mind who doesn’t have the usual stats because their parents think a B- average is good enough and don’t value academic distinction; a girl from a conservative Muslim family who’s diligent and hardworking – but guess what? Her parents don’t think she should go to college. There are many sharp and witty minds out there that are being consigned to inferior futures because of their circumstances and background.</p>
<p>If you think this is “cyber-bullying,” please wait till you actually get to college and witness the sharp exchanges between academics.</p>
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<p>My family can’t even afford the car in which I could attend a place of work. Tell me, how rural is your environment?</p>