"Tiger Mom" (Amy Chua) Has Controversial New Book

[3girls3cats]

<p>Well, Pizzagirl, just as you reserve your right to express your opinion, I reserve the right to express mine. I believe my original post was to question why *** I *** would want to read a book like this if it wasn’t a well researched piece written by someone qualified to write it. Of course I can buy it or not and of course I’m not telling anyone else what he or she should do. I personally just don’t see the worth in reading

a mash-up of observations, opinions, and conclusions based on poorly-researched data (or no data at all, merely personal belief).

</p>

<p>I definitely do object to her “pass[ing] [her]rself off as some sort of expert, all the while ignoring the work of the true scholars and experts in the field.” That strikes me as arrogant and frankly, just plain obnoxious.</p>

[Krlilies]

<p>Perhaps her relatives’ walled kingdom had an influence on her views that she comes from an elite cultural class who transforms everything into gold.</p>

<p>

I mentioned the incident to my Aunt Leona, who laughed affectionately and explained that the Filipino servants were fortunate to be working for our family. If not for their positions, they would be living among rats and open sewers. A Filipino maid then walked in; she had a bowl of food for my aunt’s Pekingese. My aunt took the bowl but kept talking as if the maid were not there. The Filipinos, she continued – in Chinese, but not caring whether the maid understood or not – were lazy and unintelligent…

My relatives live literally walled off from the Filipino masses, in a luxurious, all-Chinese residential enclave, on streets named Harvard and Princeton. The entry points are manned by armed guards.

[Vengeful</a> majorities](<a href=“Vengeful majorities”>Vengeful majorities)</p>

[coureur]

<br>

<blockquote>
<p>coureur, you should run for political office, you fit the mold. Don’t have to read any legislation, just the “publicity” around it, give your opinion and vote accordingly.<<</p>
</blockquote>

<br>

<p>Point me to the peer-reviewed, scholarly research on which Ms. Chua’s conclusions are based and I’ll be happy to read those publications. But if there isn’t any such research behind her books then I stand by my statements that they appear to “consist of a mash-up of observations, opinions, and conclusions based on poorly-researched data (or no data at all, merely personal belief).”</p>

[cbreeze]

<p>Who ever said her book is a research or scholarly project?
Is the book “French women don’t get fat” well researched too?
Are our legislations well researched?</p>

<p>PG, parenting is subjective. The incidents you mentioned are not what I would do to my kids. However, I made my kids do or not do many things that they deemed “not loving” at the time, but as adults they tell me that I am the best mother ever for them.Their opinions are what matter to me.I don’t care what anybody else said.
Looking at her kids and reading her elder daughter’s blog,I cannot say that they are not raised by loving parents.</p>

<p>Krililies, I am glad you included the link to your quotes because after reading the whole article, my conclusion about Chua’s written incident is very different from just reading your quotes albeit our conclusions are polar opposite. That’s why it is important to read the whole book, not just quotes pulled out of context.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@Krlilies

Perhaps her relatives’ walled kingdom had an influence on her views that she comes from an elite cultural class who transforms everything into gold.

</p>

<p>What does she think of Chinese Filipinos who are not among the top 0.1% or whatever in the Philippines?</p>

[Krlilies]

<p>Cbreeze, from the same link in post #162.<br>

For better or worse, the best hope for global free market democracy lies with market-dominant minorities themselves.

My takeaway of the essay is that her solution to any backlash against the market-dominant minority is the market-dominant minority group itself. To preserve their kingdom, the elite group must throw some goodies at the masses to keep them placated. I was hoping she would also cite hard work, innovation and perseverance on the part of the masses as one of the contributing factors to peace because these traits allow success to be distributed more equally among cultural groups. </p>

<p>I read the entire essay once. What was your conclusion re: the essay so I can reread the essay and see it from your POV?</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@Krlilies

My takeaway of the essay is that her solution to any backlash against the market-dominant minority is the market-dominant minority group itself. To preserve their kingdom, the elite group must throw some goodies at the masses to keep them placated.

</p>

<p>However, relatively powerless non-elite members of the “market-dominant minority” are likely the ones that suffer most from any discrimination directed against them (the actual elite ones who have power, influence, and public visibility that can help form the hostile attitudes can use their money, power, and influence to insulate themselves from such discrimination or find ways around it).</p>

<p>I.e. those who have the most power to remedy the situation are the ones who are least affected by the situation. In those southeast Asia countries where an ethnic Chinese business elite is well known and resented, it may be the non-elite ethnic Chinese who suffer most from the anti-Chinese discrimination.</p>

[sorghum]

<p>

I was hoping she would also cite hard work, innovation and perseverance on the part of the masses as one of the contributing factors to peace because these traits allow success to be distributed more equally among cultural groups.

</p>

<p>Actually, this is one of her main points, that anyone of any cultural group can emulate the success strategies of cultural groups (of various races) that do well.</p>

<p>And the walls that wealthy Chinese live behind in Philippines are mostly a protection against kidnapping for ransom.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>Well, yeah, if your definition of “do well” is about money.</p>

[sorghum]

<p>Money is a common measure of doing well, even in the US. </p>

<p>But it is NOT her focus at all, and certainly pursuing academic or musical avenues is not a good way to make a lot of money.</p>

[Jssaab]

<p>Not a politically correct comment but just an observation.</p>

<p>Having done business in various Asian countries it is apparent that the Chinese culture is one of personal and autocratic superiority. Maybe a result of historical isolation and communist rule, interesting academic study I would believe. ( To some extend Indians seem to have a similar society with the blatant acceptance of the caste system, but due to their county"s openness historical connection to the UK they are more inclusive) </p>

<p>Rarely have the Asian countries been able to succeed as we do in the US where there is no I in team. US companies and people are the most innovative and productive because there is a culture of inclusions and teamwork, the notion that ANYONE can and has the right to better themselves and succeed. Because of this we help each other and that is the most important quality of a successful organization/country IMO.</p>

<p>Look at the huge numbers of Asians in the US that attend top schools, but generally end in positions (like Ms Chua) where an autocratic superior individual accomplishment ( professor, doctor, lawyer ) is rewarded.</p>

<p>The Ivy League educates a large number of Asians but rarely are these individuals ever the innovators who build organizations, create paradigm shifting businesses or even lead top ranked companies (just look at the CEOs of the Fortune 500-only a few Asians - and all Indians for that matter in positions of Senior leadership when a large majority of them attend top schools) Unlike their US educated classmates who populate high levels of companies in droves, they are conspicuously absent and those who are generally are the first generation Asians who have renounced many of their parents wishes and learned the " American way" and the importance of others accomplishments to support their own.</p>

<p>Here is a list of all 8 Fortune 500 Asian CEOs. </p>

<p>There are eight Asian CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, accounting for 1.6 percent of all Fortune 500 CEOs. MasterCard is No. 5 in the DiversityInc Top 50. CEOs in the DiversityInc Top 50 are 6 percent Asian.</p>

<p>Indra K. Nooyi, PepsiCo
Richard Hamada, Avnet
Omar Ishrak, Medtronic
Kevin M. Murai, Synnex
Ajay Banga, MasterCard Worldwide
Francisco D’Souza, Cognizant Technology Solutions
Ravi Saligram, OfficeMax
Sanjay Mehrotra, SanDisk</p>

<p>Now of course Many of the Chinese who attend Ivy league schools go back and are successful in theer countries and there are CEOs of Asian companies that can be said to be spanking our butts ( like Samsung, Hyundai) but they are managing others who are comfortable and perform when treated in a work situation as the Tiger mom THINKS treating her children will make them a success. </p>

<p>I have seen first hand brilliant Chinese people from Ivy leagues fail when attempting to run or manage US staff or companies doing this same thing pushing people the same way. They lose support of staff and then management quite quickly. Should we all be bringing our children up this way? Does this make them or their companies more successful? Million ways to skin a cat I believe.</p>

<p>Life is about balance, enjoyment and making a difference, not only making money or being “successful”. even Ms Chua’s own daughter has mentioned resenting it or feeling she was missing something the American kids had. Then she bows her head to an autocratic superior and practices her Violin… great practice for a successful career in a company…not</p>

[artloversplus]

<p>

that anyone of any cultural group can emulate the success strategies of cultural groups (of various races)

</p>

<p>If the book is about bragging that is fine, how can you expect a “group” of people to emulate another group or even her personal success?</p>

<p>If everyone goes to Harvard, who is going to SUNY? or U of Oklahoma for that matter?
Is Music for everyone? How about Picaso? He is success in painting, but does he have to emulate Chua?</p>

<p>Bhutan is the most peaceful nation on earth, do you write a book so that North Korea should emulate? How about Palestine? Can their behavior be changed by a book, so peace on earth?</p>

<p>To me Chua is just writing a book to brag or try to earn money to sell her book.</p>

[sorghum]

<p>

US companies and people are the most innovative and productive because there is a culture of inclusions and teamwork, the notion that ANYONE can and has the right to better themselves and succeed. Because of this we help each other and that is the most important quality of a successful organization/country IMO.

</p>

<p>According to Wiki, women currently hold 4.2 percent of Fortune 500 CEO roles and 4.2 percent of Fortune 1000 CEO roles.</p>

<p>So maybe the path to CEO in the US is not totally meritocratic. A reasonable argument is that an immigrant or kids of immigrants need absolutely the best academic pedigree in order to get a fair shot at competing to become a CEO in what is still a far from level playing field.</p>

[ecouter11]

<p>Or maybe things like racism and the bamboo ceiling exist. [Deconstructing</a> the Bamboo Ceiling | Asian Fortune](<a href=“http://www.asianfortunenews.com/2013/08/deconstructing-the-bamboo-ceiling/]Deconstructing”>Deconstructing the Bamboo Ceiling – Asian Fortune) </p>

<p>

To some extend Indians seem to have a similar society with the blatant acceptance of the caste system, but due to their county"s openness historical connection to the UK they are more inclusive)

</p>

<p>[Dirks</a>, N.B.: Castes of Mind: Colonialism and the Making of Modern India. (eBook and Paper)](<a href=“All Books | Princeton University Press”>http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7191.html) </p>

<p>[JSTOR:</a> An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie](<a href=“The First Century of British Colonial Rule in India: Social Revolution or Social Stagnation? on JSTOR”>The First Century of British Colonial Rule in India: Social Revolution or Social Stagnation? on JSTOR)</p>

<p>The British had no interest in removing the caste system whatsoever. Why would they? It neatly broke up Indian society for them. </p>

<p>I dislike the concept of Chua’s book because she again is making gross generalizations about groups of people (probs to draw people in and get them to read the book). There is selection bias in which Indians or Chinese immigrate to America. That is not to say all Indians have similar values: South Indian Brahmins are probably different than Gujuratis who focus on business. </p>

<p>However, I think some groups have advantages. For instance, the Jews have a really strong sense of community and I think that helps them. Other groups are brought up to value education more: I’d argue there is a strong sense of anti-intellectualism in American society. You should check out “The Smartest Kids in the World” It does a good job discussing education differences in a colloquial manner.</p>

<p>America’s poor kids do far worse than the rest of the world’s poor kids on average. And the rest of the world’s poor are usually far poorer than America’s poor. Similarly, the average PISA scores from students at the Beverly Hills High School are worse than the average score of ALL Canadians. On exam days in South Korea, the traffic is stopped and planes can’t fly overhead. </p>

<p>I like Chua because she brings out really strong reactions in people. It’s entertaining and occasionally insightful.</p>

[mcat2]

<p>

According to Wiki, women currently hold 4.2 percent of Fortune 500 CEO roles and 4.2 percent of Fortune 1000 CEO roles.

</p>

<p>Then, according to the post which the above post responds to, 50% of the human beings on the Earth are among the less innovative half of the population just because of their gender.</p>

<p>

An immigrant or kids of immigrants need absolutely the best academic pedigree in order to get a fair shot at competing to become a CEO in what is still a far from level playing field.

There was an article circled around those working in Silicon Valley a few years ago. The author argues that the most companies (esp., startup companies) by and large could not hire minorities as CEOs because, if they do so, it would significantly reduce their chance to receive financing. This is especially true for younger CEOs (or executives) in these startup companies.</p>

<p>It is also said that even though some of the new startup companies are actually started by those minorities/immigrants, they would make sure that they would get a person who are more “presentable” as a CEO and therefore could increase their chance of getting financing.</p>

<p>An interesting comment from one of my coworkers: Those who grew up here and their parents/grandparents are NOT immigrants are very good at communications. They are therefore managers (and eventually CEOs.)</p>

<p>By the way, the main job of a CEO at many companies is not to talk to their employees. His main job is to talk to those in the finance people. He more often than not delegates the job of running all the internal operations to other executives as his expertise is often not related to the core business of his company. This is the reason why a CEO could often run one type of company and moves onto another company which is in a very different industry.</p>

[PCHope]

<p>@jssaab</p>

<p>IMHO, your post was not only an observation but also full of biased opinions. </p>

<p>To be honest, as much as I do not share Chua’s views on parenting and cultural superiority, yours are actually very similar to hers if not even worse. Following your logic, one may come to similar conclusions based on cultural superiority, as well as other discredited conclusions such as (the lack of) black quarterbacks and females scientists, from the so-called “observations”.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p><a href=“the%20lack%20of”>QUOTE=PCHope</a> black quarterbacks

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Looks like there will be one in the Super Bowl this year.</p>

[Hunt]

<p>It’s often difficult to tell exactly why members of some group are underrepresented in a job, or school, or organization. It might be because of direct discrimination by that organization, or it might be because of discrimination in feeder organizations. Thus (for example) if there are few female STEM professors at top colleges, that might be because those schools are discriminating against them–but it could also be, in part, because girls in high school are being discouraged from pursuing STEM fields.</p>

<p>And there’s also the possibility that groups are making choices because of cultural preferences. If you look at the makeup of a college orchestra or band, you might wonder whether the band director was discriminating against Asian brass players. But that’s probably not the reason there are so few Asian brass players in such ensembles.</p>

[coureur]

<br>

<blockquote>
<p>If you look at the makeup of a college orchestra or band, you might wonder whether the band director was discriminating against Asian brass players.<<</p>
</blockquote>

<br>

<p>And the directors apparently love Asian violin players.</p>

[Hunt]

<p>That’s right, coureur. I mention this because it’s possible that one reason there aren’t as many Asian CEOs of top companies is that Asian students who have the smarts to rise to such positions choose other careers, like medicine or engineering, for cultural reasons. I think there are probably multiple reasons for many of these observations, some caused by discrimination, and some caused by other factors.</p>