<p>Thanks all especially eadad. The Rav4 is too small for me. </p>
<p>Eadad: this is the Edmunds article I was referring to above. This person says he does not get a cut from the dealer.</p>
<p>[Secrets</a> of a Professional Negotiator — Edmunds.com](<a href=“http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/secrets-of-a-professional-negotiator.html]Secrets”>http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/secrets-of-a-professional-negotiator.html).</p>
<p>
My last few purchases were through the fleet/internet department of the dealer. Just figure out exactly what you want then send them an email (there’s usually a link or email address on the dealer’s website) requesting a quote. Do this for a number of different dealers of that brand in your area and even further out assuming you don’t mind driving a bit for your big purchase or to save some money. I found that I could get a better deal than by using the Costco path although the Costco path (or similar ones through Credit Unions, etc.) wasn’t bad either. I don’t recommend going into the dealer and going through the salesman rigamarole where they try to gain by playing on your emotions.</p>
<p>
This is an over-reaching statement. I agree that some of their vehicles have less quality than some others but that goes for Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, and most others as well. One also can’t necessarily base their experience 5 or 10 or 15 years ago with some manufacturer’s models with what they happen to produce today. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is a brand new vehicle from the ground up and it was designed when Jeep was part of Daimler-Chrysler. I read a LOT about new vehicles and all of the reports on this new Jeep GC have been great and they specifically mention things like the quality of the interior components. </p>
<p>To balance what I just said, I rented a Jeep Compass and it fell into the category that ‘eadad’ described - it used low quality interior components, was underpowered, and noisy. I’ve rented similar vehicles from other manufacturers though. The Jeep Compass and the new Jeep GC and completely different vehicles in pretty much every way.</p>
<p>The 1991 Ford Exploder I had was the least reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned and way less reliable than the 1985 Jeep Cherokee I had prior to it and the 1998 Dodge Durango I purchased after it (that I’m still driving 183K miles later). IMO the Exploder I had was poorly engineered, used some cheap quality mechanical parts, nearly left me stranded in the middle of the desert while 4-wheeling as a result, and I was glad to be rid of it. I once had to have it towed 60 miles (up in the Sierra mtns) and wait a week for it to be repaired due to something breaking in the transfer case while just driving in 2wd on a highway while on vacation. To counter this though, I had a friend who also had an Explorer (note the spelling change) a couple years newer than mine and he had few issues. The new Explorer is a new design from the ground up so IMO it shouldn’t be compared with the poor quality one I had. </p>
<p>OP - do the research yourself on it if you have any interest in the Jeep GC or any other vehicle - check Motor Trend, Road and Track, and other vehicle enthusiast reviews. Don’t solely rely on non-auto enthusiast mags like Consumer Reports.</p>
<p>UCLA-UCSD: Thanks for the good advice</p>
<p>Do not buy a Rendezvous. My FWD with “traction control” is just AWFUL in any snow at all, even with new tires. Third row is only very little person worthy and when it is up, there are literally 3 inches of cargo space behind it. I admit that it is moderate in terms of cost of ownership, but I regret my decision to own it for the reasons mentioned.</p>
<p>We have two big dogs. I have a BMW X3. It is okay for one dog for a quick trip to the vet but the dogs don’t look all that comfortable in the back. It is a bit tight. Otherwise I absolutely love my car.
H has a Toyota Land Cruiser. With the 3rd row of seats up it is perfect for 2 big dogs with enough room for both of them to get comfortable for a long drive. H has 130,000 miles on his with no issues. We bought it used with 30,000 miles on it from a friend of my FIL. It was still almost as expensive as my BMW new. It is the favorite car of two of my kids and they are both fighting over who gets Dad’s car when he gets something new.
Prior to the LandCruiser we had a Yukon. We put a ton of miles on that car with no problems. Lots of room for dogs and kids and stuff. Both of my SIL’s have Highlanders. For some reason I don’t love them. But it does seem to have room for a good sized dog. D has a Mazda Tribute that while a small SUV has decent space in the back.</p>
<p>Ford is supposed to be coming out with a very cool new truck/suv engine in the next 6 months. I would not buy anything until I researched it.</p>
<p>If this is it, it looks like it will only be for trucks.</p>
<p>[Ford</a> Powers Up New and Future Powertrains for F-Series Trucks - PickupTrucks.com News](<a href=“http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/01/ford-powers-up-new-and-future-powertrains-for-fseries-trucks.html]Ford”>http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/01/ford-powers-up-new-and-future-powertrains-for-fseries-trucks.html)</p>
<p>I’ve decided to get a Ford Explorer XLT with the BLIS (blind side warning for the 2 plus hour trips on I 39/90) option. Problem–apparently everyone else wants an Explorer. There appears to only be 2 or 3 Explorers in the whole Madison area and for miles around. They are made in Chicago so I might try there because we have an in-town in the city.</p>
<p>We are using a buying service (see post no. 41 above) that does not take money from the dealer. It was written up in Edmunds.com. It appears the minimum cost to use their services will be $200.00. I just can’t bear going from dealer to dealer and haggling especially since the wife said that I could spend as much as I want, which I wouldn’t do.</p>
<p>The buying agency got back in touch with me. Basically it would cost approximately a $1,000 for me to use their services. The Explorer is such a hot car right now that I’m not sure that I could get my money’s worth since dealer might not be willing to make any real deals.</p>
<p>If you know exactly what you want, including options, color, etc., then you can get prices from the fleet/internet departments of the dealers and you can do this by email. It should end up to be a better price than this broker although it’ll vary from dealer to dealer. Don’t worry too much about availability since you should still be able to get a decent price. </p>
<p>You can also do what I did when I bought my Exploder (and my Durango) - I ordered it as a factory order (i.e. it’s tagged with your name on it as it’s being built to order at the factory) through the fleet/internet department. You may get a better price from the dealer if you’re willing to do this because this way they have very little overhead in it - i.e. no cash outlay, lot space, etc. When you do this you can get it exactly the way you want with the exact options and color without compromising with what’s ‘on the lot’. You tell them what you want, the dealer comes back with a confirmation of the options and gives you a cost, you confirm it, you might need to give a couple hundred for a ‘deposit’ that’ll come off the ending price, they order it from the factory (although sometimes they can get it sooner from another dealer’s lot or from what’s already on the way in), you wait 5-7 weeks for the factory to build it, they tell you it’s in and prepped, you go pick it up.</p>
<p>The factory order worked great for me for both the Ford and the Dodge and I’d be willing to do it again. I don’t mind a 6 week wait for a big ticket item I end up keeping for 7-13 years or more.</p>
<p>Good advice ucsd-ucla dad. I’m willing to wait. I don’t need all the options that are often added on.</p>
<p>Excellent choice.</p>
<p>I had an early Toyota 4Runner, then a Mercedes M320 with good handling but lousy reliability, and now have a 2008 Toyota 4Runner (4WD) again. I love it - I do pretty serious offroad with horses and hunting and a driveway from h***, and am able to haul an aluminum trailer with just my horse with the V-6 engine. I can haul masses of stuff, and feel very secure in it, although the permutations available with all the dials and buttons can be a bit overwhelming at first. The quality problems Toyota got trashed with were important, but very overblown.</p>
<p>We’ve had two Land Rover Discoverys and one Range Rover, and found them to be service nightmares. Constantly having pumps go out, air suspension fail, etc. AND we live 100 miles from a dealership. After the last problem, I was fed up and vowed I would never buy another Land Rover (although I just love how they look) and would never buy a car I couldn’t have serviced in our smallish town. </p>
<p>We went to a car show in the “big city”, looking at every single SUV made (at that time). Decided on a Toyota Land Cruiser and have never looked back! Ours is a 2004 and has 85,000 miles on it. It have NEVER had one mechanical issue (knock on wood!). </p>
<p>We have filled that car to the brim moving our girls in and out of college for years. We have never kept cars as long as we have our present vehicles. I tell my DH I am going to see how long I can keep this car because I just love it!</p>
<p>tsdad</p>
<p>A radical thought but…have you considered looking FAR outside the midwest? Several of the biggest Ford dealerships in the US are in Texas for example…for far less than the $1000 upcharge you were looking at you could buy a one way ticket and drive the new vehicle back.</p>
<p>Just a thought…if you’re interested send me a PM with the specs you’re looking for and I’ll contact some old industry friends and see what I can do for you…and there will be no “brokers” charge involved ;)</p>
<p>Thanks very much for the offer eadad, but I prefer to save my vacation days for actual vacations. I have an appointment with the internet manager at a local dealer. I’m interested in seeing the price. The initial person I communicated there said I could not pick up the car at the factory. </p>
<p>This is why I keep my cars for so long. The Trooper is 10 years old with 110,000 miles. The process of replacing them is so trying.</p>
<p>I’m curious how the broker process will end up playing out. It sounds a bit like Edmunds which I’ve used twice, once for my daughter. Just specify what you want in terms of trim, model, etc., and the dealers get back to you to compare offers. Not sure how it would work in Madison but in NOVA there are a ton of dealers that want your business.</p>
<p>Would you need to travel with a crate? Our Honda Pilot works well with the last row folded down, a no-sweat process for Pilot’s. I believe the crate is for up to 95 pound critter, (our dog is about 60).</p>
<p>No crate. He sleeps most of the way, but I need something where our long legged dog can stand up occasionally on the trip to Chicago. But, this is really about me wanting a nice, new, big car. </p>
<p>How are things in Fairfax?</p>
<p>We’re hanging in in Fairfax. I’ll hit you with a PM later.</p>
<p>
The ones I factory ordered ended up being shipped to the dealership I arranged it with and I picked them up there. I don’t know whether picking them up at the factory would have been an option but I’m far from any auto factories (unless you count Mexico). I know that some factories allow for factory tours/pickups - the Corvette has a program like this (or at least had one before their implosion), Mercedes has one, I think Volvo had one, and some others.</p>
<p>Make sure you know the invoice price and any factory incentives to the dealer on the vehicle before you go talk to anyone at the dealership. you can get this from Edminds or KBB. Also, the fleet/internet person should show you a printout of the factory invoice. Your cost should be based on that invoice - usually invoice minus any factory/dealer incentives and then plus or sometimes minus a differential from there. If they want to charge you much more than $200-$300 over the invoice it’s too much - especially for a factory order where they have almost no overhead.</p>