To (All) the Colleges That Rejected Me

Parents Forum
1141

<p>Perhaps I spoke out of turn since I am not very familiar with HYP as per Consolations’s example. But please allow me to rephrase as I can see that what I wrote could offend: I really don’t think that adcoms,* with their limited information*, are that savvy that they are “unerring”. </p>

<p>I took the literal definition of unerring which, according to Merriam, means committing no error and I find it hard to believe that no mistakes are ever made. Just within my circle of friends/acquaintances, I know of 3 kids who dropped out and 2 who are transferring. To me, this suggests that these students were not perfectly matched with their schools and yet the adcoms thought otherwise. And since you ask about my kids, I admit that the colleges could have accepted “better” students. My kids play way too much video games, don’t contribute to the college community like they thought they would and probably don’t study as much as they should. So in this sense, there are probably other kids who would take more advantage of their opportunities.</p>

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<p>Are you suggesting that those who speculate are prejudiced and biased, but adcoms are not?</p>

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<p>Oh good grief. The concept of “mistake” doesn’t apply here. Look, I’ve got 30,000 applications for 2,000 spots. Now let’s say I’ve filtered down academically and now I’ve got 10,000 kids. All of them would do quite fabulously and add to the community. I have to choose 2,000 of them. I go ahead and choose 2,000 to form a particular class. If all of those kids evaporated and I had to choose another 2,000, I’d get a pretty great class out of that, too. Trying to pretend that there is “one best” or “2,000 most deserving” is silly and pointless. They chose who they chose. It hurts. But then you console your kid and you help him move on. </p>

<p>Anyway, how do you qualify “a mistake”? The vast majority of these kids show up, do the work to the best of their abilities, participate on campus and the community as per their interests … how can there be “mistakes”? It’s an odd concept.</p>

1143

<p>^ that.
Bel, don’t know which books but they can’t convey the actual full process, which wouldn’t sell books. Even where they hit it, seems most readers are selective in their takeaway.</p>

<p>We generally have four reads, can be more. Decisions are by committee. You don’t have to believe it.</p>

<p>Quiet is not an issue. Hiding your light under a bushel barrel is, because the app (and maybe interview) is all you have. But that doesn’t mean obvious self promo to some extreme, either. Nice self knowledge and perspective work.</p>

1144

<p>Bogibogi</p>

<p>I wrote about how criteria lead to calling decisions mistakes if different from your own.</p>

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<p>According to the the books I have read, committee decisions are not required to be unanimous (it’s not like a jury). You could record the votes of each officer on each candidate and judge four years later which officers selected the “best” students. “Best” students would need to be defined. I would start with GPA.</p>

1146

<p>Four years is forever, in admissions.
Of course you would start with GPA. But the.colleges want that special something that’s more than stats performance- on both the front end and as one proceeds through. And that’s a combo of assets. A four star goulash. Works.</p>

1147

<p>I would say the Ivy League does well admitting students from the high schools I know, but then, those high schools are likely well known to the admissions offices. There are always students whom the community thought should have been admitted, but I can’t offhand think of an admitted student whose admission was thought to be mistaken by his/her acquaintances. I suppose mistakes might be made when the high schools aren’t well known by the AOs, or when parents have paid a great deal to consultants–although I’d expect the teacher recommendations to even the scales a great deal between students with and without consultants.</p>

1148

<p>Poetgirl-</p>

<p>I think that adcoms are probably telling the truth when they could assemble an equally qualified class out of those students who didn’t make the cut… which is why students may get accepted at one elite and miss at another. But there are only so many of these to go around all the elite schools, and as you go lower down in selectivity, the concentration is going to be diluted. When you look at yield, it is higher at the more selective schools, so again, that tends to concentrate extreme talent at the top.</p>

<p>To elaborate on why I think there probably is a difference between “tippy top” and “top schools.”</p>

<p>For example, if you look at one field - Putnam winners… There is an over-representation of “tippytop” schools on that list.</p>

<p>US Presidents, US Supreme Court Justices - Again, overrepresentation by “tippytops.” (to be fair, we are also talking about grad school representation here as well, but I bet if you look at admission lists to elite grad schools, you are going to see overrepresentation at elite undergrads.)</p>

<p>Fulbrights, Rhodes Scholars again. (Interestingly, UM appears fairly high on these lists, which should give the author of the OP article some solace).</p>

<p>now, to be fair, there are schools that appear on one list but not another but I think that the concentration of extraordinary talent at “tippytops” is probably slightly different than at the “tops.”</p>

<p>I would look at it as overlapping bell curve distributions, maybe?</p>

<p>In the large scheme of thing - it’s really not the end of the world not to go to a tippy top school - if you are not a tippy top student - do you really want to go to school and compete here? If you are a tippy top student and somehow missed the admits at tippy top schools, you will shine all the more brightly at a “top.”</p>

<p>(Here’s another “tippytop” list - Intel winners - where do they go to school? tippy top schools).</p>

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<p>That’s only the case for the few members of the jerk contingent who were admitted to HYP. Vast majority…many of whom I counted among my friends are some of the most down-to-earth humble people you’ll ever meet. </p>

<p>Many of them also happen to be introverts with a strong aversion to self-promotion due to their perceptions of it “being fake” and agree with many in my HS that it’s part of “playing BS artistry games”. </p>

<p>In fact, some of this carried over into my interactions with Harvard students during my frequent campus visits to friends, relative, and my taking a couple of classes there. IME, Harvard folks tend to do their utmost to be accommodating and inviting to others. </p>

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<p>In the case of my LAC(Oberlin), there has been much talk among older alums on an online alum forum about whether our college’s admission offices have been admitting more of the “wrong type” of students in light of the increasing threats, vandalism, and even physical assaults against racial, ethnic, religious, or GBLTQ minorities as highlighted by the recent series of threats culminating in a campus solidarity day with those threatened. </p>

<p>While I understand where they are coming from and agree in the part about adcoms/administration increasingly paying too much heed over USNWR and trying to target students who’d usually apply to more academically competitive LACs, especially the NE. </p>

<p>I disagree with other proposed parts which almost resemble an ideological/political litmus tests which I believe goes far beyond fit and ironically…would undermine some aspects of diversity they so often champion.</p>

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<p>For some reason, I feel introvert defines more Harvard admits than extrovert. May be I have just seen more of those.</p>

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<p>texaspg - I think there are extroverts at Harvard, people who possess charisma, leadership skills, etc. I think that there is definitely an introvert class as well, the academic, intellectual, destined to grad school and professorship.</p>

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<p>novimom–</p>

<p>You are the parent of an 8th grader who will be a legacy at Harvard? </p>

<p>I think you have yet to go through this process and see the “tippy top” kids who really do get rejected by the “tippy top” schools.</p>

<p>You will be very surprised.</p>

<p>Carry on.</p>

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<p>My daughter’s friends who are seniors this year don’t think highly of this person’s opinion.</p>

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<p>I’d add medical doctors and CEOs to that mix. Especially considering there was an article discussing how many successful CEOs are actually introverts.</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl, you are right. In the big picture, there are more than enough qualified students and those lucky enough to be selected, will go on to be successful. I took the literal definition of “unerring” (I know you hate that literal stuff) and just suggested that adcoms, with their limited information, are not going to make the right call 100% of the time. Anyway, Xiggi took me to task on that one sentence and I was just trying to explain myself.</p>

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<p>Great kid！ Bad that my D can’t meet her at Penn in Septmeber.</p>

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<p>Poetgrl -</p>

<p>I am sure there are amazing kids who get rejected by elite schools (although as PG has said more than once, if they are completely shut out, it is probably because they applied to only tippy tops and a safety instead of a broader range of appropriate schools).</p>

<p>And it’s perfectly possible that adcoms “made a mistake” by passing over a “tippytop” student. They probably do this more than once - who knows how many Pulitzer Prize, or Nobel Prize, or future Fortune 500 CEO’s are passed over by elites.</p>

<p>All I am saying is that objectively, “tippytop” schools are overrepresented on multiple “tippytop” lists.</p>

<p>This may not be a popular opinion here, and there are are multiple negative and unproductive ways to react to this information (i.e Ivy or bust), but that is my opinion.
Oh, and of course, if you look at the “tippytop” lists, they are not all Ivies.</p>

<p>In any case, if you are a “tippytop” student and get “shut out” of tippytop schools, I think your best bet is to shine like a supernova wherever you end up. You will find your level.</p>

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<p>Yes, well, I’m not an ivy or bust, and you defined tippy top yourself back a few posts ago, as HYP. So… there you have it.</p>

<p>Me? I like a good hundred or more schools as top schools, and I would go to 150 for very good schools.</p>

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<p>“I’d add medical doctors and CEOs to that mix. Especially considering there was an article discussing how many successful CEOs are actually introverts.”</p>

<p>Cobrat - sure, no argument here.</p>

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<p>I went back and looked, because I don’t think I said HYP…</p>

<p>I think I said HYPSM (which is technically not all Ivy), but in any case, it’s more a shorthand to mean tippytop. Which is probably not fair because tippy top means different things for different fields and is not strictly restricted to HYPSM.</p>

<p>I mean, who was the one who decided to put MIT on that list and not Caltech?</p>