We also are asked this at nearly every interview, and our child is asked every time. If there was any doubt how outrageous this practice is, consider the reverse: “Who else is applying to the school this year?” I was getting to the brink of saying “Oh we’re not applying here, this is just a practice interview.”
I get that they dearly want to keep their yields up and admission rates low - publications of which is a perverse element of the process easily undone if some of the top schools would stop reporting the numbers. Secondly, they could unwind the pact of no-solicitation until March 10th. Or at least have an Early Action process like colleges do. If it was really clear that Big {Color1} would admit our child we could forgo applications at Big {Color2} – less travel, fees, essays, and stress. These schools are more similar to each other than they’re probably comfortable recognizing and they all have low admit rates so it would be weird not to apply to many schools.
Absolutely. They are very similar lol despite students believing that there’s a HUGE difference.
Andover and Exeter expect you to attend if you’re admitted. It’s the schools that are not as prestigious that are worried about yield. St. George’s for example might be worried about being a safety school and therefore ask the question.
I wish there weren’t such a stigma around “safeties” or being second (or third or seventh) choice and so much emphasis on yield. So many amazing students are edged out of admissions from (let’s call them for sake of argument) tippy top schools who would be a wonderful addiction to (again for argument) a “next level” school. In fact, that student’s matriculation would likely boost up the safety school’s score/GPA profile, their community would have a smart kiddo who maybe just barely slipped through the cracks (because those cracks are big when 85% of applicants are getting rejected), which would make all boats in the harbor rise over time.
Of course I’m not talking about a student who hates this safety school and attends with a heart filled with regret. Or a safety school that is not academically challenging enough. I’m talking about the kids we are all afraid of our kids becoming — rejected because of misguided (IMO) yield management fear. We hear over and over again of stories of great kids with 98% SSATs going 0 for 10. And I’m guessing maybe 1 or 2 of those 10 (at least in some cases, not all) were “safeties” that this 98%-er would have happily attended after licking their wounds, doing revisits and getting their mind set on loving the school that loves them.
But nope.
Don’t let that great student in because they dared to dream to go to Andover. (Or wherever.). The thinking that if any student dared to dream to attend a school a notch “above” is too snooty/smart/whatever to be a part of us is shortsighted at best. The irony if this approach is that the better that safety school perceives that candidate to be, the more likely they will assume they will get in somewhere better, and the bigger the risk to their yield, so the less chance the safety school will give them an offer to hedge for the yield risk.
Oh gosh.
Talk about the tail wagging the dog.
The idea that if I’m not first choice then I don’t want to play at all is fine in choosing life partners, but for school admissions, I’m against it.
(Not saying all schools take this approach.)
@Calliemomofgirls I really think you are overthinking this. IME, schools do not reject candidates they love just because they think you may view them as safety or are aiming higher. If they are really worried about their yield and think you are unlikely to come, they will most likely waitlist you. If you do not get your top choice and call or email and let them know that you will come if offered a spot odds are quite high you would get an offer from the waitlist. But if they really want you they may also just send out acceptance regardless.
@417WHB I am definitely prone to analysis. My post was really a bigger point, not really “about my kid.” But as it happens, I think a fair number of previous applicants would say that there is definitely a yield management/safety bias at play. (Someone in the college world can correct me, but isn’t it called the Tufts Effect?) Anyway…J15 is almost here so I’d better get back to parent statements!
Tufts Syndrome, yes. Poor Tufts and their inferiority complex toward the Ivies is often blamed for today’s ED, EA and REA craziness in the college world. Not sure we want that to spread to boarding school world. I personally would vote against for sure, though one of our coaches has said how much easier it would be for his recruiting.
Speaking as someone who attended Tufts, I can attest that there is a Tufts Syndrome and it got amplified once you were actually there. Regarding the question @ AO’s being sensitive to your list or WL’ing or Rejecting very qualified students because they think the school may be a “safety”…a few years ago there were posts about this topic with regard to Loomis. I can tell you that when we went to visit/interview with one school - which we thought would be a great fit - the AO’ was overtly skeptical with us parents & kiddo - I do think she was “onto us” and that this was a “safety”. We ended up not applying to that school because of that interview experience, in large part. Now, after being on CC for a few years, I realize it would not have been the best fit.
FWIW, I spoke recently with an AO who told me he was concerned with “yield” and that they are in tune with sincerity. They are looking at fit also - do you fit?
Overall, schools want kids who will create the community that they want to have. I think everyone is overthinking this safety and yield equation. If you fit, you will likely be admitted. Even if, or especially if, you are a likely to be a top student in some way. Now, if the AO overhears you post-interview telling your parents how you humored them by visiting the school but you would only go there if you didn’t get in anywhere else (yes, this has happened - you never know who is in the other bathroom stalls), all bets are off!
While everyone is thinking about the downside, remember too that they may be figuring out what they would need to do to get you! If you are FP, maybe they are figuring that a merit scholarship could entice you away from a name school. (Yes, this happens. And it often works!) If your family has all attended another school, they probably want to understand your interest in their school but that doesn’t mean they won’t admit you. (Again, it happens. ) Otoh, if they feel like you have something that is really valuable/critical to the school but you have conveyed that they are at the bottom of your list, they may want to make sure they extend an offer to a kid who is likely to attend and brings that critical thing to them. It’d be risky to bet on you for something so important. Remember, this is about having the right people in their class in September for most schools, not about a yield %. Think of it as enrollment management, not yield protection.
Most BS realize that it’s hard to get a class bonded when it includes kids who aren’t thrilled to be there. That’s what they are looking for. But also know that although you may consider certain schools “second tier”, there are students every year who choose those schools over ones you consider “first tier”. So those second tier schools clearly didn’t turn down kids who were applying to brand name schools and it even paid off for them.
It’s easy to feel at this point in the process that admissions is out to get you. They are not. Really. If you did your homework in selecting schools, there’s a fit for you.
I have to say…I agree with all of what’s been said. Although The school is truly trying to find the correct community that fits them, many of them have yield in the back of their mind. Putting together the jigsaw puzzle of the right student body is difficult and if they have two similar students that can fill a hole, they’ll likely go with the one who only applied to like schools or indicated they were the applicant’s top school.
There’s so much that goes into this process, it’s hard not to overthink it all. IMO, just be honest and as forthcoming with your answers as you feel comfortable. AOs will usually pick up on overly rehearsed or coy responses. The answer to this one question will not make nor break your chances of acceptance.
@Calliemomofgirls You know how lots of people say “love the school that loves you best”? Why shouldn’t schools “love the students who love them best”?
Isn’t it better to have a community of kids who LOVE their school and are excited to attend, rather than a school community of kids who think they are settling for far-from-best? In other words, would you marry someone who would rather be dating your cousin?
The bottom line: One person’s “safety” school is another person’s “dream” school.
I’m all for AOs giving the spot to the kid who dreams of attending the school and who will be grateful and happy for the opportunity!
@CaliMex Agree with much of your point, and support schools searching for kids who want to be there. (Which is why I think we all would agree on this board that no one should apply to a “safety” that they wouldn’t be delighted to attend.) But the romance analogy doesn’t work for me here, because I absolutely think that kids could love a number of schools and could find a happy future at many of them. The Bachelor aside, I don’t that is the case with romance.
Without getting too specific, in my job, I heard advice early on – which was not to take it personally if I am someone’s second choice. Take the work, go knock it out of the park, and make them thrilled that their first choice person wasn’t available. I have zero problem being someone’s second choice in the right context, because I know that I just need to show up and it will turn around. (To continue the metaphor – I would NOT want to show up if someone was super bummed about getting me, a total loser distant plan D, obviously.)
As adults, we can probably all think back to many instances in our lives when we didn’t get what we really wanted but we ended up later looking back and saying: oh wow – that really was exactly the right outcome.
The challenge for schools is to sift out the kids who really do NOT want to attend their school and would consider it beneath them, while NOT sifting out the students who quite honestly might pick Exeter (or wherever) over them, but didn’t get in, and would be delighted to love the school that loves them.
TLDR: Second (or 3rd or 4th) choice in the world of schools, jobs, and life opportunities is OK. (But not in marriage. Just ask Peter.)
@Calliemomofgirls The moral of the story is do NOT apply to schools you would not be happy to attend. And make sure you understand what makes each school special and why it is the right fit for YOU. AOs want to know that you’ve chosen to apply to their school after careful consideration and are not just looking for a “safety school” or, alternatively, chasing the “prestige” of attending a school that’s famous (and may or may not be the right fit).