“I guess all I’m asking is - should it be so easy to live beyond our means? Did our grandparents do that? I think only the upper echelons of society could get away with it back then.”
The person who I am dealing with who lived beyond her means was living nicely, but she wasn’t buying fur coats every week or taking first-class trips to New York to go shopping or anything. It was that she didn’t get that the money that she had from her divorce - she needed to try to live off the interest as much as possible and touch the principal only for certain things. And she needed to make choices - you can afford to go to nice restaurants, or you can afford to take a trip to X, but you can’t do both, all the time. And she just truly didn’t understand how interest in credit cards worked, to the point that when I got involved, I was beyond horrified as I have never paid a penny of credit card interest in my life. I don’t know whether it was truly-didn’t-know- there is some of that - but there’s also a big heaping of don’t-want-to-know, bury-head-in-sand behavior. There were no medical bills or Bernie-Madoff-ran-off-with-the-money situations here.
There is a lot of magical thinking and inability to prioritize and make tough choices. Some folks think if they keep working and aren’t “extravagant,” things will work out. They don’t understand how much they end up paying once they start paying interest and finance charges on credit cards, and it all cascades.
@partyof5, I’m so sorry. That’s terrible, and seems quite unfair. I wonder if companies are now able to reap a generous financial boost because of that, or if they are also paying increased costs? Are you supposed to now go out and shop around for cheaper prices for a mammogram, if they find something, as opposed to going back to your own doctor? Seems that it might be a bonus for people that never need medical services, but for most of us that actually do…,far more expensive. I thought this was going to prevent people from being stuck with oppressive debt.
@Pizzagirl - your example sounds somewhat like my homeless relative. This person was not living an extravagant lifestyle, yet there were definitely choices made that could have been better.
His wife was living here in Boca quietly for awhile. That was a very sad situation.
“Did you read the opening of the story? She is in deep debt and went out to eat rather than the grocery store. Her RV wasn’t cheap to buy nor to maintain. Her lifestyle of moving around is her own choice.”
Did you read the rest of the story that explains why she made the choice?! Her “real estate” was a mobile home on a rented piece of land; because the landowner tripled the rent, she could not sell her double-wide. No one would rent to her, so her choice would to either live under a bridge or in an RV. She cannot cook in it - it is tiny, and she cannot buy in bulk or even in 1-lb packs because she cannot fit that into her tiny fridge or storage.
Please read beyond the first sentence. This is not a story of someone who splurged on Louboutins uncontrollably.
@busdriver11 yes, it is terribly unfair. For example, I had an issue with the mammogram, and they saw something, and thought it was a cyst. They wanted to just watch it, of course I said, uh no, that wont happen. So they were going to aspirate the mass, to see if it was a cyst. I tried to get the codes so that I could find a lower cost facility to do it and they ran me around like nobodys busines. I finally relented, and had it done at the same facility where i had my mammogram, and was left with a 1200 bill just to have a cyst drained.
@Pizzagirl there are facilities that do ct scans with contrast for less than 1k. So while I dont mind paying, there is something wrong with our healthcare system where the exact same procedure can cost you anywhere from 600-6000. I just googled the cost of the ct scan I had and the prices were very low at some facilities.
All I can say is life is unpredictable and scary. There is no feeling of security. Last night I went to bed with worry on my mind and this morning I woke up with the feeling my heart was sunk to my stomach. I read the wedding thread and I think how am I going to save for my dd wedding in the future. How are we going to pay for grad school. Should I increase the deductible on my health insurance so I pay less every month? But then I read of people going bankrupt with health costs and it makes me anxious. I live below my means. I’ll spend for dd but barely shop for myself. I have two credit cards. Discover and one Visa. I primarily use one and pay it off every month. I think 5 times before purchasing anything.
I’m afraid to spend any large sum for anything. I also worry being single as daughter grows up will I be able to take care of myself and support myself as I age. I am in my upper 40’s and do have some health concerns. I drive a 13 year old car with 113,000 miles on it. I am frugal and don’t buy expensive cars, vacations, clothes, mani or Pedi’s.
I clean my home myself. We eat mostly at home. If we do eat out once in awhile it is with discount coupons and we carry it out.
I truly believe now health is wealth.
^^ Exactly, BB (comment #44). The woman in the second story has a Master’s degree; as she’s cleaning the men’s restroom at a campground she mentions "I’ve got a master’s degree…Good thing my old classmates can’t see me now.” The couple in the last story is composed of a skilled carpenter and a nurse.
None of these people struck me a profligate spenders or welfare queens. Most seem to be decent, industrious people who have fallen on bad times with little financial resources. If you’re going to criticize their choices, at least read the whole story. That first woman - the 79-year-old woman - strikes me as determined and hard-working and as someone who is trying to make the best of her situation.
My mom was shocked at how many of her classmates she saw from her masters in special Ed program who were working at Macy’s. In retrospect, not sure how many of them may have been working two jobs–teaching and Macy’s rather than just sales at Macy’s. It is tough balancing saving, spending, quality of life and other things.
One big problem is that media has changed social norms for many, so folks think it is “normal” to have pricey smartphone with expensive monthly charges, eensive cable bill, and more.
Allowing employers to have no pension and no retirement plans for employees is also very tough on workers. Social security was never meant to cover all costs of living, and if folks don’t earn enough to save regularly, there is no nest egg for the future.
I don’t think any of these people are bad. They are as you say “determined and hard-working , trying to make the best of her situation.” But something happened to these people. Educated and hard working people. And I have seen this something happen to more than one family in my life. It’s not always exactly the same thing but there is a thread that ties together all the stories and situations that I have personally encountered. And I don’t think self help seminars and books are the answers.
I bet 90% of homeless folks roaming the streets of my city are on the street because of a mental illness. Stigma, lack of funding for mental health, etc. Sad.
Im now receiving residual bills for lab work. So you think, I go to my doc who is in network, so you think you are safe. What Ive found is, she doesnt use a lab thats in network. Now I know, lesson learned, I have to ask a lot more questions when I visit any doc outside of my normal physical.
Ahh makes sense. For my homeless relative, I don’t think it’s mental illness as much as some long-standing dysfunctional family stuff going on in the background (guess that’s similar but not exactly the same thing), as well as a buzz-saw housing market and easy credit before the housing market went off the cliff.
