<p>Uhm as you saw, the medians are higher but are not that much higher - that’s in 2006. </p>
<p>Cornell 2006 3.36
Dartmouth 2006 3.39
Harvard 2005 3.45
Princeton 2006 3.27
Penn 2006 3.44
Brown 2006 3.7x</p>
<p>Seeing how Cornell’s went up much faster than those of other schools, the difference would be pretty negligible now. Also take into consideration Cornell’s science and engineering focus.</p>
<p>Brown’s pass/fail choice is not looked upon that favorably by employers.</p>
<p>pass /fail is one thing - but taking princeton out of the mix as they have their own policy, what is the effect on cornell students if they have the lowest average gpa of ivy students based on your post? based on the numbers you give us, odds are that a student will get a higher gpa at another ivy school over cornell - does that hurt the cornell student down the road? looking at the above numbers it is easier to get a higher gpa at any of the other schools (except Princeton). so a kid going to Penn has an advantage to start. i know there are a number of other factors, course, sciences, etc. still -it looks like kids at other schools get a head start over cornell kids - at least in one sense.</p>
<p>P.S. I see you said Brown’s pass fail choice is not looked at favorably. Have you ever seen anything in print to that effect - or is that your supposition or opinion.</p>
<p>So in the end you just want to make it seem like Cornell is the “wrong choice” for me even though paradoxically you applied ED to cornell and are lucky enough to have gotten in. Sorry but your ploys failed, again.</p>
<p>And no. That slight 0.08 gpa median diff does not really amount to anything. You don’t automatically get a 0.08 gpa head start by being in penn. You also don’t get an automatic -.39 gpa if you go to rutgers.</p>
<p>It’s not “easier” in any of these schools to get a good grade, cept in Brown. Just work hard, and if you have the ability, you’ll get there. The school is not out to get you.</p>
<p>Yeah okay, in “one sense”. How about you look at the whole picture and stop starting a new sensation after nitpicking a number or some other thing that seems to single out cornell. In this case, princeton too, but you totally disregarded that.</p>
<p>The most important thing is that you believe yourself and your own abilities. If you are shaken by statistics made 5 years ago down to the second decimal point, then cornell can truly do nothing for you.</p>
<p>I’m happy with Cornell ED and it definitely is choice # 1 for me.
happy I got in.
I hope it is the same for everyone that went ED.
I just made some posts in a thread that was discussing a grading issue at Cornell.
P.S. Your numbers were from 2006 - 5 years old. I think if you went to the threads talking about the average grades at Columbia and Stanford (not only Brown and Harvard or Yale) you would see almost 70% As being issued in the recent semester.
someone posted the cornell median grade report on this thread and indicated at cornell it is like 30% As for the recent semester.
that is a big, big difference in As issued. does it affect cornell kids in any way when they compete against kids from Penn or Columbia
I was just asking if anyone had an opinion on that, nothing else.
I was only asking where you got the info that employers don’t like the pass fail at Brown or somehow know that cornell has on average lower grading than any other ivy (cept princeton)
As for me, I’m 100% happy with Cornell, no matter what my major will ultimately be. The key is as you say to believe in yourself,</p>
<p>Ok post the sources here to show you are not just making those numbers up. And find the most recent median gpa too.
You are not asking for an opinion. You are bombarding us with a series of underhanded rhetorical questions in order to prove a point that you are not willing to state explicitly. Whatever you are trying to say, say it. </p>
<p>If an employer does not care that much about gpa, he/she would probably not care about pass/fail. If he/she does, the chances are that an abundance of pass/fails would not appeal to the knowledgeable employer.</p>
<p>“Another quickly growing argument in favor of this change is the need for quicker turnaround with grades, specifically for first-years. Student Records could expect turnaround to be a little quicker under this system . . . the grade would be one of four options: Honors, Pass, Low Pass, or Fail. This past semester has left many 1Ls frustrated as employers withdraw potential positions or toss out their fellowship applications under the impression that the student is simply holding back on releasing certain grades because they are not good enough. Numerous 2Ls and 3Ls can relate to the situation.”</p>
<p>And for med school, they really do not want you to use the pass/fail option, especially for the requirement courses.</p>
<p>“Can I take courses pass/fail?
You can take one or two courses pass fail, but NOT your pre med requirements.”</p>
<p>Wait… Princeton’s GPA is only 3.2ish and Brown’s GPA is over 3.7? This isn’t right…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Anti: This is law school recruiting. Legal employers are obsessed with law students’ transcript/GPA/Class rank when making hiring decisions.</p>
<p>As for undergrad, many employers don’t even see your transcript before making hiring decisions. You get interview by submitting your resume and GPA on your resume. They don’t give a crap if you have P/F or W or what not on your transcript. This means that having a high GPA is an automatic plus for a candidate. Undergrad recruiting =/= law school recruiting.</p>
<p>Oh then this doesn’t have anything to do with me. Sucks to be prelaw 
I’m sure you’ll do fine if you are a good student though.</p>
<p>@antiflamer - I wish you success, much success.
You posted “I seriously doubt that more than 1/2 of the kids get straight As in other ivies”
I showed you the Brown link, and you responded, well everything cept brown.
Look at the link in the threads for Columbia and Stanford.
If Penn has an average higher GPA, I don’t see how the student entering a freshamn class would not have a better chance at a higher GPA - just like they would at Brown or Yale Or Columbia. Yes, there are other factors, but if you walk into a school like cornell and then walk into a school like Penn or Columbia, how can it not be that you have a better chance of walking out with the higher gpa from those schools when on average their students have a higher GPA?? Maybe I’m missing something.
Look at the data, not opinion. Numbers count, opinions and suppositions, not much.
I saw your comment about Brown and employers not liking their pass fail and simply asked where you got that from.
anyway, the point is that Cornell is a fine school and offers programs not found anywhere else, esp. in the colleges of CALS and Ecology.<br>
I think (bit don’t have data) that most grad schools like actual grades, not pass fail.<br>
I wonder how Brown, Penn or Columbia students make out (compared to cornell grads) in the job market or on entry to law school because of their higher GPA or of that does not make a difference. Do you know if there is any analysis of that?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This has been addressed numerous times before. It is an advantage to attend a school that hands out A’s easily. Law schools (top ones) don’t care if you have a 3.8 from MIT or 3.8 from Arizona State. They would look at both candidates equally.</p>
<p>Employers - high GPA helps you land interviews. And, from then on, you need to ace the interview to get the job.</p>
<p>Then I shouldn’t care about your opinion at all. Since of course, this is pretty much your opinion. What I see is that even though cornell’s median grades are statistically about 0.05-0.1 lower than avg. in ivies cept for princeton and brown, It’s pretty much only 1 letter grade diff. and this is discounting the difficulty attributed to engineering courses and science courses in which cornell is focused in. Toss in a bunch of not so academically bright students (who are marvelous in other things) and it shouldn’t matter at all, given that the median grades for many classes are in As and B+s.</p>
<p>Uhm I don’t know about the world of law school, but if that’s the case it sucks for them. Maybe that’s why Cornell does not do that amazingly in law in comparison to other ivies. But what about princeton?</p>
<p>by the way, not so much cals and human ecology as hotel and engineering.</p>
<p>@antiflamer - assume for a second that the average GPA at Penn of graduating students is 3.6 and at cornell it is 3.3. If everything about 2 kids applying to get into UCLA medical school are exactly the same and the cornell applicant has a 3.4 (.1 better than the average gpa) and the penn applicant has a 3.6 (the average gpa at penn), who gets picked??? kinda sucks to be premed also?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>LSAT. Princeton may have more kids with higher LSAT. (I suspect that to be true) LSAT is the most dominant factor in law school admissions, by far.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is kinda dumb. Pre-meds should’ve done their homework and known that they need to go to an easy school if they want to improve their chances of getting into a med school. If you choose to go to MIT and major in engineering, yet are complaining about your crap GPA and get rejected by med schools- guess what, no one has sympathy for you. If you want easy A’s- forget Ivies. Go to a State U on a full ride.</p>
<p>-facepalm-
you are trying to force your opinion on me.
Seeing that more than 50% of premeds or whatever statistic someone put out several pages ago get more than 3.6/3.7 it doesn’t really seem to matter. 3.4 Would put you at the bottom in which you probably shouldn’t get easily accepted in the first place. I wanted to do premed here, and I expected to do the work for it. People have done it before, many people. If other people can do it, so can I. If it doesn’t work out, guess what? I have choices.
And by the way, penn’s avg gpa 5 years ago was 3.45 while cornell’s was 3.36, taking into consideration all the schools and disregarding cornell’s science and engineering focus.</p>
<p>so lazykid, if you want to go to med school, you say go to state U or an easy school and get the best possible GPA. why then so many pre med and pre law kids at the ivys</p>
<p>Because there are ambitious and intelligent fellows who still do well in ivies with premed/prelaw track.</p>
<p>antilflamer - you said brown was tricky -
just answer this
2 equal kids 1 from cornell and 1 from brown
applicant from brown has a gpa of 3.9 - where you say it is easier to get a higher gpa - stats show it is .4 on avearge higher
cornell applicant has a 3.7 gpa
brown kid took about 5 pass fail courses - not in the sciences.
which one gets picked for UCLA medical if everything except the gpa is the same?
it is not fair, and may be tricky like you say, but as people above have posted, it is this way</p>
<p>there’s no way to tell:
“Medical schools want to see that you have challenged yourself academically, so don’t overuse the pass/fail option.”
the reality is only brown extensively uses that pass/fail thing, but how much it affects premed, there’s no true way to tell.
But I can be sure that if two students have 3.7 and one used pass/fail, the one that didn’t would be seen in a better light</p>
<p>one or two p/f classes seems alright for most med schools and they’re usually taken in classes that are not part of the prereqs. Most students use these other course slots to their advantage anyways (take grade bumpers) so it shouldn’t make that much of a difference. The rest depends on the student, but taking too much p/f would not not appeal to any top medical school.
alright gotta go</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Quite a few at ivies get weeded out for med school. These folks would’ve been far better off going to an easy state college, for less the price.</p>
<p>For law school - many from Ivies do end up at crappy/lower tier law schools. Again, these folks might have been better off had they chosen easier college, to improve their chances at a top law school.</p>
<p>@lazy, are you saying that all the premeds and prelaws at the ivys made a mistake and should have gone to a state U or school with the easiest grading??
@antiflamer - I don’t think Brown uses the pass fail thing extensively - it is up to the student , some graduate with only a handful of pass fails like at any other school.
if as you say Brown is an average of 3.7 and cornell is like 3.3-3.4 then it follows that it is easier to get a 3.7 at Brown. A Cornell 3.5 is a real good gpa at cornell - vs. a 3.7 at Brown which is just average. does the 3.5 biology major gpa at cornell have the same chance as the 3.7 biology major at Brown or Stanford who took say only 2 pass fails??
as you say it may be tricky, but I think the Stanford 3.7 or the Brown 3.7 (when everything else is the same) beats out the cornell 3.5 to UCLA medical even though it is ironically harder to get the 3.5 at cornell than it is the brown or stanford 3.7.</p>