<p>LazyKid - if you read my previous analysis and understood it, it wouldn´t be hard to understand that there would be same number of Yale students applying to Harvard Law as Harvard students. The fact there are twice as many Harvard UG students relative to Yale UG going to Harvard Law, it shows Harvard Law favors its own UG students. Likewise, Yale has no such preference to its own UG studends. </p>
<p>Each law school has its own admission policy, Berkeley is different than Stanford, Duke is differnt than Colombia. I think it is a wrong conclusion for you to draw that where you go to UG has no impact law school admission. Through out all of those posts, you haven´t shown any data to support your argument, other than few personal (friends) admission information.</p>
<p>Again, Stanford has changed its admission policy over the years, depending on who the dean is. Some years they have admitted more well rounded students from lower tier UG schools, and some years they wanted top testers, highest GPA.</p>
<p>I wasn´t going to engage you again on this particular discussion, but for the fact that you continue to come on to give your “expert advice” which could be misleading to a lot of readers here.</p>
<p>So you are telling me that HLS favors its undergrads to the extent that it admits its undergrads at twice of a higher rate than kids from Yale. Yale UGs ~ 100 at HLS, and H UGs ~ 200 at HLS. And, what about Princeton? HLS admissions folks favor Yale UG over Princeton UG? Because, there are ~100 Yale UGs at HLS, but only ~50 Princeton UGs at HLS. You really think that HLS admissions folks give Yale UGs yet ‘huge preference’ compared to Princeton UGs? Before you jump into conjectures and conclusions, you need to figure out how the rules are played at law school admissions. </p>
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<p>Berkeley is the only top 14 law school that cares more about GPA than LSAT. It enrolls fair share of students with sub-par LSAT. And, employers punish Berkeley for that. Berkeley BigLaw placement at OCI for 2Ls have been sup-par relative to its rank. Aside from Berkeley, all law schools essentially function the same admissions-wise, yet some are more difficult to get into than others. And, its ‘Columbia’, not ‘Colombia.’ Columbia admissions is actually quite similar to Duke’s in that they are both heavily LSAT and GPA oriented and give admissions decisions out very quick.</p>
<p>Difficulty of getting into medical school is increasing each year. Some admissions person said that the stats of their matriculants increase each year. Just 5 years ago, the competition was no where as intense. This is similar to college entrance as well. It’s just getting tougher. I hope the reform can make it easier for people so those who really want to do it have a better chance. Though I don’t really think the reform will stay unchanged for long. It has too many flaws</p>
<p>I don’t know that prelaw kids are any better off… maybe worse
aside from the big finance jobs on wall street, if you can get one, what else is there that is not screwed???</p>
<p>Most prelaw kids can get into a law school, granted, it may not be the caliber of law school that would position you well for a decent employment. Right now, it is a terrible period to think about even attending a law school outside top 10, especially if you are paying full sticker.</p>
<p>Many premed kids don’t make a cut at a single med school. But, once they make it to med school, at least they are guaranteed a decent employment with nice salary potential. (which is far away from the case for law school students)</p>
<p>The way I see it is that you need to play the game safe. Especially if you are a premed, try to get as much of an advantage as you can. Do whatever to get a high GPA. (Yes, that includes going to an easy school and getting good grades with much more ease)</p>
<p>The way the medical thing is going will mean family practice doc’s and many others will have salaries competitive with those of Nurse Practitioners and Physicians Assistants, who will be doing many of the things doctors used to do. Plus, the M.D.'s will have late starts (4 years medical school, 4 to 5 years of residency), plus some debt. The competition is relative. The MOST competitive medical school admission was in the mid to late 1970’s, when the best of the best were all premed.</p>
<p>@swimmer726 - Where do you get this data from that the most competitive time for admission to medical school was in the 1970s? Do you possess MSARs from the past 40-50 years? AMCAS data only goes back to 1982, and graphs there show that the number of total applicants was highest in the mid-90s. </p>
<p>Also, please tell me what economists/statistician has said that primary care physicians will earn the same as nurse practioners and physicians assistants. Currently, based off of mysalary.com estimates, PCPs and family physicians average about $170K/yr. NPs and PAs earn on average around $80-90K. This is a significant difference in wage scale. I don’t think salaries of NPs and PAs will increase significantly and I doubt that MD salaries will drop below six-figures. Current doctors like Sandeep Jauhar, wrote in his book, Intern, that most doctors will not become filthy rich anymore (a million/yr or more), but that salaries will fall more in line with the job specifications. Becoming a doctor does not make you a god and I think ones salary does not have to reflect that. </p>
<p>@LazyKid, as someone who hasn’t gone through the process of applying to medical schools, or isn’t on a medical school admissions committee, I think you are ill-suited to be offering advice on getting into a medical school. You are correct in trying to get a high GPA, but there is much more to the process.</p>
<p>The first year is probably good enough to show if kids are in the ball park or not.
A lot of kids will realize that premed is pretty tough by the end of the first year. Many of them will look for different goals. But I’m pretty sure most kids are not obstinate enough to follow the premed track with say a 3.0 gpa. If you are truly a student that excels and you work hard for your goals, you’ll get where you want to be even though it may not be where you intended in the first place. Sometimes it’s better to listen to your own judgment after doing some research. Nothing is spoon fed.</p>
<p>lazy - I don’t think that law school is so “safe” as you make it - even at one of the top 3.
I think the Harvard Record last year reported many HLS grads still looking for any kind of work. with medicine, like law, everyone can get into a school, some med kids go out of the country, and they all get work (unlike law), the problem, however, is that by many reports the nurse practitioners and physician assistants - who always have work, will be earning the same or close to the doctors. anyone premed, gets into a school of some kind - period, problem is it worth it for so many years and so much money. only easy way for big bucks - if you can get the jobs - is in finance. the problem with law, unlike medicine or nursing or teaching, is that there are so many grads who can’t even find a job of any kind. I think if you check with HYS law school placement offices, they will tell you that on average last year - 25% of their grads are still looking for work. call them and check. if the economy turns around, then the law business takes off for sure.
If anyone wants to be a lawyer, then go for it and do whatever is your passion. just seems risky unless you are very committed to law because of the job situation.</p>
<p>Yes, that is what I was saying before. Anyone thinking of going to a law school ranked outside top 10, or at least top 14, paying full sticker, is out of his mind. From Stanford and Yale Law, people have been doing fine. Harvard - not so much, largely due to its large class size. Last year close to bottom third of the class at HLS failed to get BigLaw (aka they are screwed). This is arguably the worst economy in the legal industry, and hiring has been horrible. </p>
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<p>Big bucks - for law students, they make 160K base plus 30-40k bonus if they make BigLaw first year out of law school. This is huge sum of money. And, making BigLaw is arguably easier than making it to the Associate level at BB in finance. If they don’t make BigLaw, I agree that these law students get totally screwed over. </p>
<p>And, in finance - most analyst gigs last for 2-3 years, and these firms don’t keep you. This means you need to do networking like crazy, go to a top MBA, build connections, etc, to keep yourself in finance. (I am talking about BB or buy-side shops, not small boutiques.) Making big bucks in finance is actually hard as hell. Only very few make it past Associate level.</p>
<p>Medicine - it’s not all about the money so to speak, but some folks really want to become doctors. And, if you make it to a surgeon in a competitive field (heart surgery, neuro, etc), you make tons of money. Although, I agree that many other doctors (physicians) don’t make THAT much money.</p>
<p>what do you know, we agree.
law has become tough, even for the top kids because they may not have work
medicine, there is always a place in a school here or abroad and everyone gets in somewhere, and they all get jobs, but is it worth the many years and expense is something else. it comes down to commitment.<br>
the thought of going to Harvard law and 25% not having jobs is kind of crazy, but that all changes with a bump up in the economy
that is what makes law so risky, unless your dad runs a large firm or something like that
I guess with law, even if you can’t find a job, there are other fields the degree could work in</p>
<p>absolutely oldfort, that is why I told him/her that finance is the only business left for the big bucks quick, getting the jobs though is not easy.
but if you get the jobs, they crush a surgeon’s earning power or Yale law grad without all the schooling</p>
<p>The problem is supply and demand - there are just too many damn lawyers in this country. Each year, law schools pump out 40,000 new JDs. Out of those, less than half make salary starting in 60k. The ABA needs to close down many garbage, third tier law schools so that the supply of lawyers is controlled. American Medical Association, on the other hand, does a much better job of controlling the supply of newly minted doctors. </p>
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<p>The figure was close to 35% past two years at Harvard. Although coming out of HLS, you might still find a decent gig in public interest or something. But, you will make like 50k a year. (which is a terrible situation to be in coming out of a top law school)</p>
<p>The economy is gradually picking up, but many agree that BigLaw hiring will never be the same as it used to be. Going to a law school is a big risk, and risk gets bigger as your law school’s rank goes down.</p>
<p>yeah, but if you can go through all the years and spend the money, the medical profession always has a seat in a medical school, here or abroad for every applicant, and if you pass the boards, you are in and have work. law students can’t say that, but it is all about following your dreams. with law school, big name seems to matter a lot. with med school, don’t think it is so important but I’m not an expert, just basing it on the doctors on those reality shows that do plastic surgery or other specialties - many went to med school in south america and make real money. if you want to have no issue with employment, nursing, physician, teaching, practitioners always get work, but you have to have the commitment.</p>
<p>I never disputed that. I know associates at BB in IBD make more than BigLaw Associates total comp, with bonuses. I said that it is harder to make it to Associate in BB IBD than it is for BigLaw. And, let’s not talk about mid or back-office banking here. (IBD, Sales and Trading only)</p>
<p>And, analyst gigs at BBs last for 2-3 years. After your time at BB expires, you aren’t invited to stay longer at BB. Some are invited back and promoted to Associate level. (very few) This was what I was saying.</p>
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<p>Not too much, except I know you make good money in the industry. Although I know how hiring structures are.</p>