Yes, we’re aware of this and I’m going to make sure he applies in time. I heard 70+% of the class comes from EA. About UMD, we’ll do some more research especially seeing as merit is promising. 90+% of class I believe.
Well hard to compare to Michigan, now isn’t it ?? Lol.
The problem here is that they all have a different fit /feel /culture. Again, it’s not the name brand especially in engineering.
I would put pretty much any Big Ten college over many on your list depending on what you’re really after.
All great school’s.
2 Likes
You can find the information about merit awards in UMD’s Common Data Set. It’s nowhere near 90% getting merit awards. That said, with high stats, your son should see some merit $ from UMD. Keep in mind the overall COA. I believe for out of state UMD is up to $62K/year. The average award is $8K so still a much higher cost than other schools. There are big scholarships at UMD but they are very very competitive and there is no need based aid for out of state students. Your son would need to get moving on that application if he wants to give it a shot!
Purdue doesn’t break out the numbers for EA/RD acceptance but there have been some years that the popular majors completely close after the EA round. Other years, there have been acceptances in RD. No way to predict what will happen this cycle.
1 Like
Let me paint a small picture of EE at a place like Princeton — small class (90 graduates). Will not cover every sub topic in great detail. They will be very good at whatever they have coverage in. Most EE jobs that you would want would be accessible. The curriculum will be very theory focussed, for good or bad (some people think the theory is not a bad thing). Exceptional access to faculty and ability to do at least 4 semesters of one on one research with some faculty. Open ended resources for the research that you are interested in. Department is likely to also have interdisciplinary focus with collaborations with other departments. And the school will offer optionality to pivot smoothly to careers outside of EE. All of this may or may not be to your taste.
2 Likes
The bigger question is…what does your son think of these colleges. They have very different cultures and vibes. Has your son visited any of these colleges? Or are the selections being made based on rankings, or what?
2 Likes
I’ll bite. Several of the ivys are not schools one might pick if planning to major in engineering. My s majored in Mech E at one of the schools on your list, but in fairness, he started as a physics major. He looked at several of the schools on your list but for him (and perhaps for your son) fit was the driving factor.
1 Like
What was his experience?
I can’t answer that. Like you, I know what I read and I’ve visited some so I know a little more - but not the EE program specifically.
Everyone has opinions. Mine differs from yours. I think, short of a few engineering schools, where you go doesn’t matter. I didn’t think that until my son noted it and given his job success, I saw it. He interned and shared an Air BNB in the summer with one of the schools you mentioned as a powerhouse. He went back a 2nd year. Even in his current job, yes they hire from powerhouses but they also hire from W Michigan, Akron, Utah and more.
So my “thought process” differs from you. Others disagree but I like to look at career data and one of the schools on your list posts an awfully high amount of kids that seek jobs that can’t find. That happens to be the school I mentioned above and we had a poster here whose kid couldn’t find a job. I also work with people from that school (not engineers) and some are ok, we fired one as we did from an elite private school near it) - and I don’t see all the hubub.
Now, you are looking - I presume at US News rankings. Are you looking at undergrad because if you just pull up a ranking, it’s grad. You have to search for undergrad. I said it before, in my opinion, it’s a popularity rank - because they are asking Deans which are the top colleges. The list rarely changes - because they’re just saying the names they know.
I believe in outcomes. You and others have dismissed. Clarkson has great outcomes. Bama and more. Ga Tech has great salaries but not great success, relative to others. I like the Linkedin, WSJ, Payscale ranks better - but they are ranking schools, not departments. But they are ranking outcomes - unlike US News and this is why the LACs that have business and/or engineering likely outperform the traditional top schools like Williams/Amherst/Bowdoin, etc.
But by and large, salaries across schools are equivalent and I showed you that earlier - in post two.
Initially my son loved Wash U after our visit (similar to your list) because it’s like Disney. But once we visited Purdue, Wash U was in the rearview mirror - Boiler Up. He only looked at Bama because Senior year you have job shadow or college visit day and he went with three of his friends to visit. Came home. Applied. Didn’t tell us and a week later announced he was going there. I was stunned but he saved me $80K or so over four years (he had a $10K merit at Purdue, which I understand is unlikely to happen today) and his outcome was above the Purdue average outcomes (which are similar to his school anyway). In this case, if he preferred the school he attended so that he could have his own bedroom and a shared bath with one, well, it worked out.
Wash U, like a Vandy and the others you mentioned are great. I think they attract a different kind of student though. One more into research, who might do a Masters. I noted earlier my son, at trivia night at some bar, met a Columbia grad. I don’t know how they got on the subject but the Columbia grad was miffed that his company paid him less than a Bama grad (who made the same as Michigan, W MIchigan and more - because they all made the same. He got $700 more a month when he went to HCOL Irvine…but no extra $$ when he went to HCOL Naples - go figure. But in the end, Columbia, Cornell or WVU, they are paying for the job and location, not the school, not dissimilar to any job I’ve ever had. I don’t get bonus points for having an MBA. They have a payband (it’s wide) but we all fit in it and its impacted more by the salary at the job you came from elsewhere. We all make more than those who grew in the company - which is pretty standard.
My son’s friend group was very STEMy - they ended up at West Point (with a Masters in Data Science from Purdue before being assigned his military duty), Auburn, 3 Bamas and a UTK. Whether or not they could have gotten into the list you are asking about, I’ll never know. I know my son could have gotten into WUSTL ED but he was WL RD. I say that because they pressure you to death to switch to ED. HIs friends applied to big engineering programs, with Formula SAE, big sports, etc. And these schools cost less - and perhaps that was part of it as well. All are doing great, btw, in fine jobs.
I think your son could reach out to each school and ask to speak with a student - a student ambassador and he can ask questions of them. But I think these schools have higher salaries, not because of engineering jobs, but because of other jobs - whether banking, consulting, or more - that maybe the state school grad can’t get.
I’ll give you another example - non engineering - why I think like I do. My daughter was in a selective program at a regional public school, granted one with a national profile (kids go from all over). It’s the #3 school in its state.
Well, her best male friend in the cohort got into Rice, Vandy and Penn and yet chose College of Charleston. He’s at Gtown now doing a Masters in the School of Foreign Service and plans to apply to med school. Both his parents are physicians. I’m sure his upbringing played a huge part in his success.
Another friend in her cohort did a Masters at Oxford and is now at Harvard Law - class of 2029. One didn’t need to go to the top school to do it - in fact, these top law and medical schools enroll kids from colleges you never heard of…tens and hundreds of them.
I think, and it was said above, if you come from a great family that supports education, from wealth, etc - you have knowledge, accesses, privilege, you’re going to find your way.
But I think asking about these colleges defeats the purpose. If he’s got interest in them, apply to them all. Personally I’d run the NPC on each. I set a $50K for my kids. Not all made it to $50K but if there was no possibility (like no merit aid), they simply didn’t.
We applied to schools that assured to meet $50K or were possible to get there.
So let’s say you apply to USC and it’s $80K a year. You have a $50K budget. Now, college often costs more than they say - you have transport, spring break (rich kid school, gotta keep up with the jonees, late night pizza, sports and more. What if they go Greek?
Are you willing and able to go above your budget which I think you said was $50IK. Because there’s nothing worse than getting in somewhere and then you are pressured to let them attend. If the NPC says $70K and you let him apply, you are playing with fire.
A UMD, is highly unlikely to hit $50K, btw - so you should know that going in. It is possible but highly unlikely - but a UMASS or Ohio State or Minnesota, not assured but better odds. That’s the type of thing you have to decide. You may think one is better. I think they are substitutional.
I’ll go back to that long list I made - and there’s plenty more but I was trying to give you an idea.
You asked about these -
Are you familiar with EE at Princeton, JHU, Columbia, UPenn, Duke, Rice, Harvard, USC, Northwestern, maybe Vanderbilt, Yale? He’s considering all these schools in addition to the state schools. How do they compare to the powerhouses like GT, Purdue, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Cornell, UIUC, UMich, UT Austin?
Great - so pick 5 or 8 and apply (but run the NPC first). Like UT Austin and U MIchigan - not going to get close. UIUC either…not close from a $50K cost POV.
But again, that’s easy - what’s the assured and affordable - that’s what you need to work on.
That’s not UMD - I suspect he’s getting in but it’s highly unlikely to hit $50K. Ohio State, Delaware, UMass also aren’t assured but are more likely. WVU, FSU, Bama, SUNY there’s 5 or 6 and many many others are assured and others like Clarkson are highly likely to hit budget.
So I can’t answer your question. I have bias - like everyone on here. Some of my thoughts have changed from watching my kid go through the job market. And talking to some parents in Private Messages on this website r when my son is home and his friends are home, etc and I see them.
I do think though -
-
If you can’t visit (and some of these you are close to so maybe you can), at least ask to speak to a student
-
Some apps are long with a lot of essays - you can’t apply to all. So be judicious - I’d personally use budget as the first determinant, utilizing the NPC.
-
I’m a big believer in budget - otherwise, why have one. So if someone says - well I don’t want to spend $50K but $72K for this school is worth it, then you don’t really have a $50K budget. And that’s another $88K, at least on paper. So I advise parents and students to build a school list around your budget.
-
Unlike others here, I do believe in outcomes school publish. They’re not all great - some have low knowledge rates (like Ga Tech) meaning they aren’t tracking a high #. Some have high knowledge rates but not everyone submits their salary, (Pitt, Alabama)etc.
-
Get your dream list done and get cracking on the - safety, affordable list. If you strike out on your list either acceptance and/or affordability wise, and it’s very possible, you’ll wish he had a school he really loved vs. - I have to settle.
But my guess is, if your son is looking to be an engineer, there’s 100+ schools, including your list, that may get him similar jobs. If he’s looking at other things like Consulting or a Masters/PhD, your list would be better. Cornell says 48.5% of ECE majors are going to more school whereas a UCONN shows 6.3% of EEs do - so that tells me a lot right there.
If that’s him, he might prefer the schools on your list - which in many cases might attract a different type of person and do much better in those higher paying roles, and those kids are mixed into the outcomes.
If he just wants to be an engineer in a company, he might prefer a more traditional program (one within budget). He might also have interest in a certain weather, school size, environment - city vs. suburb, might love big time football or basketball, etc.? If he cares about food, than UMASS is a home run - top rated. Va Tech too but not affordable.
Sorry to be verbose and not give you a formal answer - but every poster on the CC is biased and I’m no different. But that’s why I use the data - to try and become more objective in my thought process.
Thanks
3 Likes
He loved it. Loved the school, the closeness with faculty, the opportunities it offered for internships, innovation and entrepreneurship, engineers without borders, etc.
Will message more later. (backchannel)
1 Like
Missing some strong schools like Oregon State, Texas A & M and not sure Notre Dame is known for EE.
A&M is on there. I’ve heard good about Oregon State and would add it.
Be aware that Texas A&M has secondary admission to engineering majors (called ETAM). 3.75 college GPA automatically admits, but it is competitive for those below 3.75 college GPA. Purdue has a similar system, but the automatic admission college GPA is 3.2.
3 Likes
A lot of the schools named are super hard to get in so things might sort out themselves. After the basics (safeties etc) are covered the student can apply to both style of schools and see what shakes up. Once acceptances are in the student can do a deep dive to see if Princeton EE or GT is better for them. You will have a whole month to visit the schools and do a very thorough analysis…
Edit -I see UCB posted about ETAM.
Note - A&M is $60K + and not easy to get to although AA flies to College Station (not cheap).
Not sure about merit opportunities but I think they are limited so if your budget is $50K and hard, then think long and hard about a school like this.
It’s also enormous (campus size) and student population size - so is that something the student seeks?
TAMU allows for stacking of scholarships and has guaranteed merit for NMF. A number of high achievers from my D’s school landed at TAMU for engineering because of getting great merit.
But, getting a 3.75 freshman year is no joke for engineering and I believe there are GPA thresholds to maintain scholarships too so that would need to be taken into account.
2 Likes
Oh - is the student NMF? Sorry - forgot if so.
Yeah, if NMF, it will be at the cusp of $50K. Looks like $10.5K off a year. Perhaps there’s more merit as you noted when you say they are very aggressive? This is just the “guaranteed” merit. Other colleges have “diminished” their NMF. I think UTD is the most aggressive NMF in Texas with free tuition and some housing assistance.
A&M has great salaries, better than most - $89K for an EE bachelor on average with 108 salaries reported. Not sure of the knowledge rate. I put the link at the bottom. I know your son may have other majors of interest too so you can toggle from different schools and majors.
Not NMF.
1 Like
Then it’s a budget call - I could be wrong but I don’t believe there’s a lot of OOS merit - so now you are $60K plus.
Really great outcomes, at least by salary (they don’t show % placed) - but it’s an enormous school - area wise and student population. I think these are things to discuss with a student - some, like my daughter, wanted small - especially in size. The town is very nice btw - and on a business visit attended by area dignitaries, I can tell you the alumni are extreme…a cult…but in a good way. Such pride for the school…honestly, maybe like no other. I know Michigan has that rep too but I’ve not seen anything like A&M.
Some like small and contained. Others like large or even enormous - 20 min walk to class - no problem.
So to me, there’s more to think about then top perceived whatever - because of the daily lived experience.
But if A&M makes the cut and you are ok with the costs, get it in.
I think in your case it’s best to over apply - given your late timeframe - because you can always eliminate later. But don’t miss SUNY free app week…even if no interest, since you’re in state, it’s worth getting them in as a fallback.
I think it’s open now. Apply to 5 - more have accredited EE than just Buffalo, SB and Bing…because if he decides he likes small, at least you have it for a last minute emergency. These kids are 17. Minds change. It looks like Albany, New Paltz and Oswego have too.
Many actually prefer to visit schools before applying. Many high schools provide the opportunity in their schedule for seniors to go look at colleges. If a student is reaching for the golden ring and they can manage it time and cost wise, visiting schools before applying lets them get a better feel for what they like/don’t like, want/don’t want, and can eliminate some schools before even applying. As I shared with the OP backchannel, my s didn’t “like” Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Cal Tech, MIT for a variety of reasons, but loved Rice, liked Brown, GT (back in the day that was his safety— my how things change!) and had mixed feelings about Harvey Mudd. Made his application process easier to eliminate some golden ring schools off the bat b/c he didn’t feel some were a good fit.
1 Like
Both of our kids vetted their college application list before the applications were sent mostly done by October 15. Even our music performance kid was able to do that because he had one very very early (summer before senior year) audition and acceptance.
This really cut down on applications, essays, costs to send Profile, etc.
We were in a position to have our kids visit before they applied. They were able to meet with students in their majors, and visit the facilities as well.
But I do recognize that some families apply way more broadly, and narrow down after the acceptances come in. Different strokes for different folks.
I’m still not really clear what this student wants.
1 Like