Transfer advice BME major & premed?

I think what everyone is missing is - the family wants OP at what they deem a top school.

Hence, WUSTL and Ga Tech are in - but a Pitt, U Rochester, Purdue, wherever aren’t.

Rather than love the schools that loved the student, they are pining for schools that said no.

And there’s family pressure.

It’s sad and wrong - but that’s where the student is.

The really sad part is - GA Tech placement data isn’t the best. Not close.

There was a post yesterday - Ga Tech, JHU, NC State. Now NC State was much less but the case was easily made it was superior to Ga Tech….at worst, the career stats were comparable but i think the % placed was higher if I recall.

Ga Tech obviously gets a very high caliber of student - but the method for which they excel is sad - because there is literally no data behind it. It’s - who is the best according to other academics. That’s it.

btw - OP said Atlanta is a leading biomedical hub. I don’t believe so - even though it has Emory/CDC etc but the biggest hubs are:

Boston

SF

San Diego

Raleigh

DC

Atlanta is far below per this list. It makes sense. I go to Raleigh for work. Medical equipment companies are everywhere !! Oh, and UNC shows - with only a 36% knowledge rate - but 92.6% working. 5.6% continuing education, and 1.9% seeking employment.

Here are a few rankings of biomedical hubs for OP or anyone interested.

Top 10 Pharmaceutical & Med Device Industry Hubs in the USA

The Top 25 Biotech Cities in the U.S.: Your Guide to Career and Innovation Hubs ClinLab Solutions Group

This is incredibly helpful for expanding my perspective. Thank you!

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These are in most cases very tough schools to transfer into as an undergraduate student. UC Berkeley does take a significant number of transfer students, but my understanding is that most of them are come in from community colleges in California. If you were turned down applying to these schools out of high school, you will probably be turned down again as an undergraduate transfer applicant.

Also, I do not think that most of these are likely to be any easier than Purdue in terms of maintaining a medical-school-worthy GPA. Premed classes are not going to be easy regardless of where you attend university. I also do not think that these are going to be any better for BME.

Perhaps I just do not see the point in transferring to a school on this list, and I do understand that there is a very significant cost of transferring.

In all of this I am missing what state you are from. Are any of the universities that you got accepted to already, or any of the schools that you are considering transferring to, in-state public universities?

In my opinion, for the list of schools you have provided, not realistic at all.

I tend to agree with this. From what I have consistently heard, premed classes are in may cases tough. Engineering classes are tough. These are often different classes. This seems like a tough way to maintain a medical-school-worthy GPA.

On the other hand, biomedical engineering to me seems like a reasonable thing to study. Certainly someone has to study this if we want good medical equipment to be made. Also, I would expect that biomedical engineering would require some of the same classes that premed students are taking. Also, however tough these classes are, there are at least some students who handle them well.

And I know at least one former pre-vet student (the required classes are the same as required premed classes) who thought of the required math and physics classes as solid A’s to make up for the B’s in chemistry. Different students will take to different classes. Some do take to the engineering and math and physics classes (maybe these are specifically the students who we really would want to have go into biomedical engineering).

To me this part makes good sense. It is entirely reasonable to show up as a freshman in university undecided between biomedical engineering versus premed.

At some point a student is going to need to decide which is the goal. The sooner this decision is made, the easier it might be to focus on the right classes. It is understandable and to be expected that a high school senior has not figured this out yet.

There may be some students who manage to graduate with their bachelor’s degree and still have not figured this out. While both engineering classes and premed classes are tough, I think that a few exceptional students can handle both. I expect that this probably requires all of exceptional academic ability, a lot of work, and a very strong determination to do it.

If you end up in biomedical engineering, then you do not really have to get a master’s degree and a doctorate is not needed. However a significant number of biomedical engineering students do end up getting a master’s degree at some point. Master’s degrees are usually not funded. If you end up going to medical school, then someone is going to need to find a way to pay for 8 years of university, and this is going to be expensive.

Generally it is easier to save money by being frugal and considering the cost of attendance in picking which university to attend for your bachelor’s degree. This means now is likely to be the easiest time to save money through careful choice of which university to attend.

If your family can spend a million dollars, or close to this, for your education, then you might not need to worry about the cost of education. If half a million is a stretch, then the time to find a relatively more affordable path is now.

“Prestige” is not important in engineering, and the prestige of your undergraduate university is not important in terms of getting accepted to medical school. We also are talking on this thread about a long list of very good universities.

Looking at all of the universities that you have been accepted to, can you tell us what each would cost total per year? I see that you have been accepted to multiple public universities. Are any of these in-state for you?

Also, have your parents made it clear whether they will be able to help you in a very significant way to pay for medical school, or other graduate program, and whether this will depend upon the cost of the undergraduate school that you select?

There are very significant costs of transferring. You have already been accepted to a relatively long list of universities that are very good overall, very good for a premed student, and some of them are very good for BME.

In my opinion, transferring as an undergraduate student into either Georgia Tech or Washington University in St. Louis is very unlikely to happen. I do not think that there is anything that you can do between now and the end of your freshman year of university that will make this likely to happen. Also, I do not think that there is any reason that I can see related to career growth or academics to justify this transfer.

Let’s suppose that you decide to go with BME as a career. In that case getting a bachelor’s degree at Purdue, and then getting a master’s degree somewhere else, is an entirely reasonable possibility. If you do very well in tough classes as an undergraduate student at Purdue, or at Pitt, or at U.Mass, or at Rutgers, or at most of the other schools that you have already been accepted to, and if you have very good associated work or internship experience, and you have great letters of reference from people who like the work that you have done, then pretty much any university in the US might be realistic for a master’s degree (WUSTL, GT, Stanford, … might be at least worth considering assuming that they offer the desired graduate degree).

And if you decide that you want to go with medical school, with exceptional grades in tough courses as Purdue, or Pitt, or any of the other schools that you were already accepted to, and with strong medical shadowing experience, and strong references, and a strong MCAT score, then again very good MD programs across the US are at least realistically possible.

I have had the good fortune of having met some very, very smart people in my life. For their bachelor’s degree they have attended a very, very wide range of universities. Where they have “switched up” to a higher ranked university has almost always been after they got their bachelor’s degree, when choosing a university to attend for some form of graduate degree. Changing university when going for any form of graduate degree is very common, and this does include in some cases switching to a higher ranked more “prestigious” university for a graduate degree.

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OP- I say this with love and respect. Getting in as a transfer is pretty much the same as getting in out of HS. If you are hoping to transfer after freshman year, your HS transcript, scores, and your first semester freshman year grades in college will be on the table. Your “intangibles”- leadership, your EC’s and how you use your non-classroom time, etc. There is no magic here. But you are leaving yourself a very short runway to get used to college, acclimate to the quicker academic pace, get solid grades, etc. It is very hard to get a transfer admission to a school that has already rejected you.

Good luck navigating the family dynamic here. But it is more important for “future you” that you have a solid adjustment to college (academic, social, doing your laundry) than it is for you to stress yourself out freshman year because you won’t have time to make friends since you’ve got one foot out the door.

I’m sure you’ll figure it out. There are tens of thousands of doctors in America who majored in something that’s not BME and tens of thousands of doctors in America who did not have their future mapped and figured out by freshman year. You can be one of them!

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The other issue with transferring - not all classes will move, potentially. So you could fall backward academically.

If you want to transfer and I know you wouldn’t do this - but maybe start at a community college that has an articulation agreement - so you know exactly what will be accepted in advance. This might also be the way into UCB or another UC - if that’s your goal.

A quick and dirty summary of my understanding of the normal curriculum concerns with premed and BME, understanding every school can do things a little different.

Good news: the intro years of Physics, Calc, and Chem will probably be very similar or indeed identical (minus any advanced placement of course).

Maybe, maybe not an issue: the intro year of Bio may or may not be the same.

Where things typically get rough: outside of maybe some specialty tracks, I don’t think Orgo or Biochem are typically required for BME. BME will meanwhile likely be requiring some advanced math not needed for premed. Because of sequencing issues, you might be trying to do this in some of the same terms, although possibly you can delay some premed stuff if you are planning on one or more gap years.

Then of course you have further major courses. Obviously that comparison depends on your major, if not BME, but for premed it could be anything. So if you happen to do well in, say, Sociology, that can be your major.

Overall it is probably doable if you are a STEM All Star . . . for your college. Of course you are making it less likely you will be that if you are turning the selectivity dial as far up as will barely accept you.

If that doesn’t sound great, the advice I have heard and makes sense is you probably want to choose before you hit that phase when you might be trying to do both Orgo and these days Biochem for premed along with a bunch of advanced math beyond Calc 2 for BME. I note that too many relevant APs or such may actually give you less time before you get there.

All this may sound a little tangential, but I would in fact suggest the OP start looking at the actual requirements and sequencing for BME at different colleges, to get a sense of how the first 2-3 terms might look, and what that might mean for premeds.

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One daughter started university majoring in something else, but asked for and got permission to take “freshman year biology for biology majors” during her freshman year. This was the class that premed students also took. This was instead of the easier biology class that would have been normal for people who were not biology majors (or perhaps a closely related major).

Sometimes a student may need to get permission to take some of these classes. I do not know how likely this is to be given at any particular university.

I am not sure that I would want to take organic chemistry unless either it was a required course or I was very good at chemistry (neither applied to me). However, I am pretty sure that both daughters were able to postpone taking it until their junior year of university. By that point OP might have figured out whether they are wanting to complete the premed requirements or not.

I could see a rather strong argument for not taking both organic chemistry and some of the more advanced math classes at the same time. I suppose some people could handle both, but I was happy to focus on only one of them.

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It seems you are a HS senior. Pick a school and do not start with the intention of leaving. That will set you up for failure in terms of friendships, relationships with profs, clubs, etc.

I am sorry you are dealing with family members who have issues with the schools you were accepted to. I cannot imagine how hard that must be. There will always be somebody with a “better” school, more prestigious work environment, etc. That’s an impossible bar to follow.

If Purdue does not suit you (an excellent school btw), then take a look at Pitt and Rochester. If I recall correctly, you can take classes at CMU if you attend Pitt. Pitt, as noted, is a real powerhouse for premed/prehealth. There is also a lot of interesting medical research going on at Pitt hospitals right now and it’s a wonderful city.

I have a family member in BME. Atlanta is not the biggest hub. Boston and Raleigh are, among a few others.

Your chances for transferring are low, and imo attempting to do so will hinder your success.

That is indeed correct, and actually also a few other area colleges, although CMU is by far the most common, including because it is basically across a short bridge from Pitt.

That said, in Bioengineering, Bio, Neuroscience, or similar, it might well be CMU kids looking to take advanced classes at Pitt! Again these are areas in which Pitt is VERY strong academically, significantly more so than CMU.

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By the way, this is optional, OP, but it might help focus this discussion if you can clarify something.

Hypothetically, suppose you concluded another college like Pitt or Rochester would be a better place for you to start than Purdue. Would your parents actually allow you to choose them instead?

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OP - Take a good look at the 4 year plan of study for your intended majors on your short list. Also do a deep dive about the overlap courses for pre-med. At Purdue, there are different sections/course numbers for essentially the same course titles for the pre-meds than the engineers. The engineering versions have a different emphasis and some of them specifically say that students with pre-med intentions should not take them. I would suggest asking how that is reconciled (the pre-professional advising office would be the people to ask).

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The University of Rochester placed 42nd nationally by medical school matriculation in this analysis, should you want to consider this opportunity:

In comparison, Purdue placed 232nd, and Georgia Tech placed 125th.

As an opinion on the choice of BME as a major, I don’t suggest this path, even for students interested in careers as biomedical engineers. It’s too general for the applications required.

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I note that self-selection (where people interested in med school choose to enroll for college) is likely playing a significant role in those rankings.

But then again, savvy premeds are likely often making those choices for pretty good reasons! Particularly when it comes to a place like Rochester–savvy premeds are choosing it in part because it really does have a very nice combination of attributes when it comes to a realistic sense of what actually might help make a premed path a little easier.

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Also, OP has stated early about the good med school placement stats of Wash U. My understanding is that many colleges artificially inflate their med school acceptance percentage via internal policies whereby the less likely med school hopefuls are not given a committee letter of recommendation from the undergrad college for med school and thus cannot apply to med school, as that recommendation letter is a requirement.

So, OP, that is something to keep in mind,

@WayOutWestMom — is that an accurate understanding ?

This is true…some schools can manipulate both the numerator and denominator when calculating the med school acceptance rate. For example:

  • Do the numbers include both DO and MD? Other pre-health apps?
  • Does it include students who have completed post baccs or SMPs?
  • Does it include just graduating undergrads? Does it include those who have taken gap/glide years?
  • Does it include students who didn’t receive a committee letter? Does it include students who applied after taking more than the allowed number of gap/glide years to get institutional support?
  • etc.

WashU supports all students who complete their internal process with a committee ‘letter’, process detailed at the link below. WashU does not require a certain GPA and/or MCAT score to get a committee letter, meaning they aren’t weeding out students at this point (unless the student doesn’t follow the process and/or misses deadlines.) If you take their course, follow their deadlines any student will get a letter. Note this is a new-ish process at WashU. IIRC they did used to limit committee letters to only those students who had a certain gpa/mcat and/or or other demographic characteristics.

From the linked page below (their bolding):

The MyPreHealth System is an internal, multi-faceted system that we use to collect the materials we deem necessary to support a student’s application to health professional programs. We do not rank applicants; we support everyone. Your advisor will use the MyPreHealth materials to understand your narrative and to give you constructive feedback. You will use your MyPreHealth portfolio to journal about activities, develop your narrative, collect and submit letters of recommendation and to share materials with your PreHealth advisor.

OP, just checking that finances are not an issue for any of these schools—plus med school. Are you or your parents anticipating taking out loans above the federal student loan limit? Just asking because there are a lot of other threads where the student and their family have an “I/we will make it work” plan but the actuality of their situation means that finances actually do need to play a bigger role than they expected in making the final decision .

Adding on that I have heard that transfer students often get significantly less financial aid than first year students , but o don’t have personal experience with that.

Can others weigh in, if the OP thinks that finances might be an issue?

I note my S24 has ended up probably being a premed at WashU, and they absolutely do experience a lot of pre-application attrition, meaning many more kids start with some sort of interest in premed than who end up applying (and this is net of people like my S24 who actually didn’t start interested in premed). In fact, this is the same basic thing that happens, to my knowledge, at almost every selective college. Meaning almost always, many more kids start off thinking med school than eventually actually apply to med school.

As usual, some of that is just kids better understanding their options over time, and why the med school path in particular may not be as relatively desirable as they originally assumed. And in fact, WashU’s prehealth advising is pretty blatantly trying to get kids to think beyond just medical school, to see the many other licensed and unlicensed professions available to someone with a general interest in health or life sciences.

But they also experience a “weeder” effect coming out of the tougher premed classes. Again, to my knowledge this happens at every selective college, but to me it is an open question whether there are some people who feel weeded out by a class at a highly selective college who might have persisted at a considerably less selective college.

Long story short, the stat that would be actually interesting is how many people who start off first year thinking premed actually end up attending a med school. It would definitely not be 80+% at WashU, or again to my knowledge any similarly selective school. But I don’t think these colleges make a habit of providing that sort of information, or not in an easily seen way at least.

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Johns Hopkins has posted elements of this data before. For the class of 2024, they noted that 895/1300 undergrads said they were interested in being pre-med. Then of those enrolled in 1019, 421 applied and 295 were actually accepted to medical school. So it’s a pretty big drop-off, overall.

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