<p>I am a believer that the kids that are not happy after a year are just not in the right school for them - it may be a great academic fit but I believe the social fit is just as important. Think of it like this - if you were in a high paying, prestigious job and you just didn’t like the environment you were working in, it would be miserable. Early in my career I had the high paying dream job and hated it. Everything about it. I should have left sooner…so my point is that if it is not a fit, there are plenty of other universities that just may be a perfect fit…and if he is happy then he will succeed wherever he goes. Plenty of kids get the big dream job with StateU paper.</p>
<p>texaspg – I didn’t know her that well, since she left before I really became friends with my future wife, who was probably her best friend at Yale. I only met her a few times, and I was certainly part of the problem as far as she was concerned – well-to-do, arrogant, privileged, male, not deeply engaged politically. It’s funny: I know almost everyone she was friends with fairly well, and while all of them were very critical of the male power structure at Yale then and now, they all get misty-eyed about the place and loved their time there, starting with the intellectual excitement they felt all the time. Just like me. </p>
<p>My second-hand impression is that this woman felt that, too, but unlike her friends (whose parents were academics, or professionals, or really rich people) she came from a family of assembly-line workers and had a great deal more class consciousness than most other people. For her, the affected upper-crustiness of Yale at the time felt positively hostile, not (as for others) a mixture of charming, exotic, and/or harmlessly annoying. I’m sure it would have been different if she had wanted to be a diplomat or a banker, or even just to be upwardly mobile, but that wasn’t what she wanted. So, although she had a solid group of friends who shared her intellectual and political interests, and even a romantic attachment, they didn’t share her discomfort, and ultimately that made the difference. Her intelligence and academic ability were never in doubt. She was instantly happier at Michigan. Transferring was the right thing to do.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think it’s quite possible. Top schools aren’t interchangeable. I’m not knocking Stanford when I say that there are people who may be miserable and unhappy at Stanford who would be happy at Yale or Harvard or Columbia or UChicago. The reverse is also true.Heck, I remember one kid who was miserable at Princeton and transferred to Yale where he was happy. I also know a kid who hated Harvard and transferred to Williams where he was happy.</p>
<p>I’d say that about half of the kids from my NYC neighborhood who have gone to Stanford have ended up disliking it. That’s in large part because they are dyed in the wool city kids and they disliked Palo Alto. (Even the kids who LIKED Stanford disliked Palo Alto.) In at least one case, the relative lack of performing arts on campus was a factor. </p>
<p>I have a kid who did not apply to Stanford. Kid went to a top school in the Northeast where kid was very happy. Ended up spending several weeks at Stanford spread out over 4 years. Disliked it so intensely that kid would not even consider applying to Stanford for law school. (Did apply to Harvard and Yale Law.) I’m sure there are plenty of kids who love Stanford who would hate H or Y or Columbia.</p>
<p>So, I think step one is to figure out WHY this kid dislikes Stanford.</p>
<p>Good point, jonri, particularly the issue that you raise in the last line of #128. If the student could articulate a little more specifically he doesn’t like about Stanford, it would help. In my opinion, there really are significant regional differences in the US, and differences in atmosphere even between colleges that seem fairly similar (Harvard/Williams) viewed superficially, at a distance.</p>
<p>It seems that some of you obviously think that if there are ‘rich’ kids at a school that the ‘poor’ kids should leave because they might not feel comfortable. </p>
<p>Stanford was started with the goal of giving the lower/lowest income kids a chance to the best education in the nation if they could get acceptance to the university.</p>
<p>That may be true, lagunal, but if a low-income kid doesn’t feel welcome or accepted, the original mission of the university from 150 years ago or whatever won’t make a difference. Of course, we have no reason to believe that this is the case with the OP. The issue of income or social standing has not come up.</p>
<p>I just don’t know why it is so hard to accept that no place is right for everyone–even a place that seems perfect to those who love it.</p>
<p>OP stated at the beginning of the thread that it is not academic or financial but social.</p>
<p>Yes, but “social” covers a lot of territory.</p>
<p>lagunal, I don’t think anyone takes the position you criticize. It’s a real straw man. I came closest to it, but I wasn’t even in the ballpark of suggesting that “the poor kids should leave because they might not feel comfortable.” I merely related the story of one kid, not poor but working-class, who did feel so uncomfortable she was unhappy, made a decision to leave, and everything worked out perfectly well for her. And I thought I made clear – if not, I should have – that her discomfort was in large part ideological. She was not a poor kid getting intimidated by the Richie Riches; she was a committed Marxist feminist who didn’t want to have to put up with the b.s. of a lot of rich, preppy boys all the time.</p>
<p>And I’ll add – having spent a lot of time contemporaneously at Stanford – that regardless of the goal of Stanford’s founding, the level of conspicuous consumption considered acceptable there at the time was light-years beyond what was OK at Harvard or Yale. At HY, showing off your wealth would have turned you into a social pariah back then; it was completely unacceptable. That sure wasn’t the case at Stanford, and it didn’t look like anything had changed the last time I was there (October 2012) . . . My wife’s friend lasted two years at Yale; I don’t think she would have spent two months at Stanford.</p>
<p>OMG - transfer from a so-called “top” school to a (gasp) public university? What will the neighbors say?</p>
<p>JHU… you did say, “she didn’t want to put up with a bunch of RICH …” </p>
<p>Wealth is relative. We learned that during the last recession when so-called “wealthy” borrowers (aka heavily in debt) lost everything and those modest-living savers who paid off their debts and lived within their means stayed financially secure and kept their homes.</p>
<p>Just because someone wears a Polo shirt doesn’t mean his family is wealthy. He’s just trying to fit in with the crowd. </p>
<p>Any Michigan farm girl (from any level of family income) should feel comfortable at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. The populations of those schools are now so diverse, anyone can find a fit. Lots of Pell Grant recipients at each of those schools, especially, since 2007. </p>
<p>However, Point Taken.<br>
You were talking about her feminism - or - Marxism… whatever.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I disagree with this on many levels. I know people from midwestern farming communities or other small towns who have never been on an airplane, or seen the ocean, or been to a major American city. Their idea of a wealthy person might be their dentist or the guy who owns the local car dealership. And there is no question that there is a type of student at elite universities who flaunts his/her social privilege…by name-dropping, showing off the trappings of wealth, and sometimes making fun of those with more humble origins. There are students at these schools who complain about having to stay in study-abroad housing with the “financial-aid kids.” It goes a lot deeper than wearing polo shirts.</p>
<p>I’ve always thought it was interesting that some people are much more bothered by class differences than others. It’s also possible to experience the same place very differently. I know that Harvard had lots of wealthy kids when I was there, but I was totally oblivious. The people I knew best were for the most part pretty solid middle class types. I was actually on the wealthier end of the spectrum among my friends, although I never really realized it at the time. If I’d been in the crowd of kids in finals clubs and skiing in Aspen over winter break, I might have felt uncomfortable. I’ve been very interested in how my son (who went to public school unlike me) is very aware of how much wealthier are than his friends at home. </p>
<p>I’m fine with the OP switching to a public university. I do think there’s some value though in getting to know another culture whether that is rich students, or California laid back students or whatever. But if it’s making you miserable, switching is okay - I just don’t think you should underestimate how difficult it is to make friends starting at a new school.</p>
<p>RE: Post #132:</p>
<p>Can’t those from farm towns (and elsewhere) just ignore those people? I am sure there are a lot of non-rich, non-snobby, non-obnoxious students at any school.</p>
<p>Of course. But if there is a dominant culture, it can make a poor fit worse. I agree with mathmom that some people are more concerned about keeping up with the (junior) Joneses than others. For those who are bothered by the comparisons, it is probably harder to ignore the differences, however superficial or meaningless they may be.</p>
<p>I disagree with Sally. I also know many from midwestern farm villages (populations under 1000) too. You shouldn’t judge them. And there are plenty of farm kids who have flown on a plane. Who cares if they’ve never seen the ocean? Maybe New Yorkers haven’t seen the birth of a calf. Or maybe a kid from Boston has never held a hen in his arms. </p>
<p>I also know many kids in the Ivy leagues and elite schools who are Pell grant Recipients who come from modest/humble backgrounds, though not necessarily from the midwest. </p>
<p>20% of Harvard’s undergrad population are Pell Grant recipients.
Here’s the list:
[Economic</a> Diversity Among the Top 25 Ranked Schools | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools]Economic”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And, of course, this never happens at UVa or Indiana U. or U-Texas-Austin. (How do you make that eye roll face?) You may not believe me, but back in the day when dinosaurs wandered the earth, I had a much more egalitarian experience at my Ivy alma mater than my high school classmates who attended state u. There you could get a fairly good idea of how wealthy someone’s family was by which sorority she belonged to, her car–students at my college couldn’t have them on campus without special permission which was hard to get; and her clothes. We had no sororities, no cars, and perhaps 3% of the campus cared about fashion. </p>
<p>One of my friends in college was the daughter of the assistant manager of a Woolworth’s in a small town. Her GC pushed her to go to our alma mater rather than a women’s college because she said from what she’d seen being of modest means would matter less at our college. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I doubt that because at least at HYP full pay and financial aid kids live together on campus. If kids were going to complain about living with “financial-aid kids” they wouldn’t wait until junior year and study abroad to do it.</p>
<p>Intellectualism- can be found at many state flagships. The elite privates do not have a monopoly on that. btw- someone mentioned intellectualism and then went on how that person went on to medical school. Physician here and believe me, most physicians are not intellectuals (you should hear the doctors lounge discussions, they usually do not revolve around intellectual topics after discussing patient care). </p>
<p>Let your son apply to the home flagship (or other U) for transferring his second year. The application fee won’t break the bank. He will likely get accepted (better keep those grades up- eg UW requires at least a 3.0) and will have that option. Next spring he may have changed his mind but if he still wants out of Stanford he needs to meet application deadlines sooner.</p>
<p>PS- Wisconsin students/grads feel elitist about the school, and I’m sure Michigan students do as well. We are lucky to have top flagships. It does make it harder to consider applying to many of the private schools so many on CC value highly, though. Why pay more to go to a lesser school??</p>
<p>I suspect the level of discussion depends on the crowd you hang out with. When I was in college, the only people who thought they were having deep discussions were all potheads.</p>
<p>Intellectualism is commonly perceived as “discussions related to meaning of life”. People just don’t get that one is not an intellectual because he/she sits around and discusses about “I think therefore Iam”. True intellectuals are able to push boundaries and come up with things that are adopted in the real world. </p>
<p>I said someone who was interested in basketball explored it with an algorithm, came up with a definition of new players and is getting NBA to look at their rosters differently, while doing undergrad at Stanford. He is currently attending medical school. </p>
<p>In my book, he is far more intellectual than any of those who sit around talking about meaning of life. He did something about what he thought about and it might change how some NBA teams are designed. He “will” elevate discussion of basketball teams in every medical lounge he is around in future.</p>
<p>Re: #32</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Maybe it just seems like “everyone is majoring in CS at Stanford” since, in the 2011-2012 academic year (four quarters including summer), the enrollment in CS 106A (introductory CS course for CS majors) was numerically 89% of the frosh class that year.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1552396-lot-students-considering-cs-major.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1552396-lot-students-considering-cs-major.html</a></p>
<p>However, it is likely that relatively few of them will actually end up majoring in CS (8.04% of graduates that year were CS majors).</p>