Transfer to Case Western or stay at Georgetown

College Search & Lists
41

I don’t think of Georgetown as having one of the top Physics departments for research, but that is not necessarily all that important when comparing undergrad programs. Like I think some LACs have great undergrad Physics programs, despite also not being top departments for research.

That said, I think one can think Georgetown has a very good undergrad Physics program, and maybe think Case could be even more exciting for an undergrad in Physics. It really depends what you care about, but take this PhD feeder study:

In Physics, Case had 35 PhDs in the study window, which was (coincidentally) good for #35 per capita, and even #40 gross. Note the former list puts Case up against smaller colleges including the aforementioned LACs, and the latter up against much bigger publics, so that is pretty good.

Georgetown didn’t make the top 50 on either side. Again, I cannot stress enough this doesn’t mean it is not a very good program. I am just pointing out that Case does quite well in this sort of measure. And maybe that is in part because it attracts more Physics majors (which I believe is true), but then maybe it also attracts more for some good reasons. But either way, I think you could reasonably be excited about Case for Physics.

Or content to stay at Georgetown. But it doesn’t have Engineering. Case does (and for the record, it was #14 on the Engineering PhDs per capita list, #28 total, which is quite good indeed).

42

Co Ops are great - because you have a longer term experience, they get to know you better. When my son interned in the Summer, they also had some long term co ops - from LSU and Ole Miss - so they are readily available at a lot of schools.

Case says 30% do them.

Cost wise - here’s what they say: "No, but you are required to pay an administrative fee of $300 for your first co-op experience and $150 for any additional co-ops. "

As for aid, they say: “The university’s CSS Profile does collect information on co-op earnings, and the analysis will exclude these earnings from your student contribution. This ensures that your post-assignment institutional need-based aid will not be reduced for employment obtained under the CWRU program.”

It sounds like, but correct me, you can even live on campus.

I think $20+ an hour is realistic - on the low end - but as @Greatpyrmom mom says, it’s regional.

My son was offered (3 years ago) $19 + car + $1K a month for housing 3 years ago in Mississippi. But had an offer - $25 or $26 an hour + full housing (no car) in upstate rural NY.

The other thing is, sometimes the “less known” employers or companies located in more sparse places will compensate better - they have to in order to get people there.

Whether you co op or not - the real question is - do you want the easiest and cheapest path to be an engineer (transfer in, no payment for a Masters)? You have to really want it!!

Have you checked the career center / handshake for Physics listings? When I try to see if Gtown has co-ops, this is what the web page lists - doesn’t sound focused on Physics to me - but ask them - where are physics grads going:

“Washington, DC, is more than the center for political power. Through internships, students can explore many professions, not just politics. Students gain real-world experience by working with the federal government, the DC government, nonprofits, think tanks, private businesses, news organizations, and museums.”

If I look on their career report - which is as good as those who report - and I look at Physics BS or AB without a double major, there was 7 grads of 11 who reported. 4 are working and 3 are in school…and yes 4 not reporting. The 4 working are in Consulting (which could mean anything), Technical Support, Education, and Other. Three may be continuing education but two reported the schools: Columbia and UCLouvain in Belgium. Unfortunately, they’ve chosen not to report starting salaries - likely because the school, while it excels, does place the A&S people in lower paying roles given the reliance on government (I’m assuming this…don’t know…they don’t show for McDonough either).

Case provides much more…for Electrical Engineering and again it’s of those who submit, 41% are working, 50% in school, 3% seeking and 6% other plans. Of course, this is a snapshot at a certain date. Of those reporting their earnings, 1/6 are $70-75K, 1/6 are $80-85K, 50% are $100-105K, and 1/6 are $135-139K. How many people that is - I don’t know. Sounds like not many. But jobs typically pay by location - not school. I can’t tell the years - but Ohio State shows a $70-85K range for electrical engineering with an $80,362 average. That’s 948 grads (so multiple years of a possible 1,337. UMN, as another like comparator, had a range of $72K to $105K, with an $82K average - This is December 2023/May 2024 data. They have physics in the engineering school but don’t show the data (not enough grads).

Some schools, like UVA, do show Physics out earning engineers - UVA is one in 2023 data, but when it was last captured showed 31% of 34 respondents still looking - but those working had a $95K average salary. The EEs had a $78K average salary - but of 27 grades, 87% were working and 13% were in school - so none were without a future opportunity at the time.

I don’t know - you can check overall - but if you seek earnings (not future schooling), I’d think on average the engineering degree (electrical or otherwise) would have more staying power and in many cases higher income.

One more - I checked Lehigh - similar to Case I think - in 2023, it’s EE grads earned $81,051 while it doesn’t break out physics, it’s math and natural sciences grads earned $52,709 - no doubt brought down by bio chem…but still.

Anyway, just some food for thought. I think - if you truly want it - you go for it.

But it doesn’t sound like you do.

Worst case, you transfer back to Physics at Case…so much of engineering is physics anyway.

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43

Whenever I see a post about grading practices I always substitute the term “grade deflation” with “honest grading”. Grade inflation has become so common that it is the new normal at some universities (looking at you, Harvard). When I did my undergrad in the 1980s friends who were engineers did cartwheels on the quad when they earned “Bs”, and EEs routinely scored in the single digits on circuits exams.

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44

It appears that you are past the decision point, but did you apply to any other EE programs besides Case that might be more wallet friendly? Why Case?

My son is a rising senior in MechE at Case. Feel free to message me if you want some intel on the school.

45

I agree with you. Both of my kids schools are rumored to have grade deflation - but the average GPAs are above 3.0 even in physics and engineering. Technically that would be grade inflation if “C” is defined as average. The issue in OPs case is that he will lose his scholarships if the GPA dips below 2.8, and he apparently can’t earn the scholarships back if he pulls his GPA back up. While C’s may get degrees, this student may not be able to pay for their degree if their GPA falls much below a B average. Perhaps you can shed some light on how difficult it is for EEs to maintain an average above 2.8 at Case. At my older son’s school EE was considered to be a much tougher major than mech E. I don’t know if it is like that everywhere.

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46

My son is a rising senior at Case majoring in MechE with a Business minor. He works hard and is pulling a 3.6. Based on undergrad friends who were engineers, I agree that EE is probably tougher than ME. The OP, however, is a physics major with a strong GPA so my guess is he can pull over a 2.8 in EE.

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47

That was my thinking too, but I don’t have experience with Case. Thank you for sharing your first hand knowledge.

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48

Dear everyone, I know everyone has just been on the edge of their seats for this decision, I just put down the deposit to case western, I think it makes the most sense. If I find out engineering is not for me, I can always go back but not so much the other way around since Georgetown does not have engineering. I also managed to convince them down quite a bit, 11.5 - 7400. Thank you for your help everyone.

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49

Congrats and best of luck. You got this and Case is fantastic no matter the direction you ultimately choose.

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50

Congratulations :tada: and thank you for letting us know :heart:. I wish you the best of luck :grinning_face:

51

Thanks for the update! Seems like a smart decision to me. If you couldn’t bear to leave Georgetown, you’d have known that up front. At CWRU, you’ll have great flexibility to choose along the whole continuum of options - all of the engineering disciplines, or pivoting back to physics, or engineering physics as a middle ground that still gives you an ABET degree. I hope the transition goes smoothly for you - best of luck!

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