<p>Me too. And there are few things that bothered me more in high school than all the people walking around naked in the locker room before and after gym class. (Especially with gym coaches present.) I avoided being exposed in any way in the locker room as much as possible, as I did the communal showers. Of course, I had personal issues with all of that, beyond what most people had, I think. Not that the other kids knew what my issues were, but it’s certainly true that my being as diminutive as I was led to my being frequently shoved around and otherwise tormented.</p>
<p>I’ve never seen a locker room that segregates children and adults. I admittedly haven’t seen very many locker rooms, given that I purposefully avoid them, but I know the local gigantic rec center doesn’t. And I can see why they don’t. If you go swimming with your six year old, do you stand there dripping and freezing while they change in one part of the locker room before moving to another part to change yourself? If your child isn’t supposed to see you change, where do they sit and wait and who is watching them? Is it different if it’s the childs parents? What if you take your child and their friend? I don’t know the answers to these questions. I do remember seeing grown women naked in the locker room as a child and being sort of shocked, but I suppose I forgot in a minute and never thought about it again until now… so I am not sure what the harm was other than it being uncomfortable at the time.</p>
<p>^^At my particular rec center, they have a unisex locker room for just that occasion, appropriately called “the family locker room.” By the time I was six my dad would have stood outside the changing room door or been in the one next to mine. It was a very small locker room, though, with only three or four changing rooms if memory serves, so it was not convenient to use unless you really had to as in that situation. I liked to use it even when I was with my mom because I just plain didn’t like changing in front of anyone and the unisex locker room was the only one with private changing rooms, but my mom wouldn’t let me because it was inconvenient. She held a towel up for me to change behind in the ladies locker room and usually got kind of mad at me for making her do it, actually.</p>
<p>I went with my dad into the locker rooms when I was little. And there are family changing rooms at most places. I don’t see too many people who have a problem with 6 year old boys in female locker rooms…</p>
<p>Fwiw, I think families changing is MUCH different than having a child’s swim team in there.</p>
<p>I’m not sure it is dopey if the child is too young to be left unsupervised or needs help with changing her clothes. What other option does the father have?</p>
<p>For the record, I do! I especially did when I was a 6 year old girl! I feel like men with daughters are a lot more likely to wait in line for the family locker room than women with boys are and I don’t think that’s fair. But, that is just my observation, perhaps it’s not really true.</p>
<p>OK, sorry for linking a photo I found on google images; apparently that’s not allowed. I know You Tube links are allowed, so here’s a link to the same trans guy’s – equally safe – “It Gets Better” video:</p>
<p>My point remains the same: not too many people would be happy to see him walking around in a women’s bathroom or locker room, which would be the logical consequence of forcing that trans woman into men’s facilities.</p>
<p>I also have no problem with this student using the women’s locker room. Trans people face way too much discrimination as it is. </p>
<p>Under Washington law, locker rooms are places were nudity is to be expected. Is it a good idea to host a children’s swim team at a college swimming pool? That is debatable.</p>
<p>As for nudity in locker rooms, it is an example of how our society has changed. Up until the 1960’s, nude swimming was mandatory for men at many schools and YMCAs despite the fact that advances in pool filters and synthetic fibers made this requirement necessary. I remember being 3 or 4 and changing in the women’s locker room with my mom when my dad was not swimming with us. While there was one family changing room, signs were posted allowing boys under the age of six into the women’s locker room. I think the rule also allowed little girls into the men’s locker room, but I don’t think I ever saw anyone doing that. Newer facilities have more family changing rooms.</p>
<p>There are some who argue that the general attitude in the US has become less in favor of nudity due to the increased visibility of LGBTQ+ individuals in our society, but such an argument seems very unfair and ignores the trend of children more and more often growing up with their own bedrooms and more privacy. It is worth noting that there are many businesses, often gay-oriented, where nudity is expected or sometimes required, but those businesses are regulated differently than public swimming pools.</p>
<p>It’s worth noting that parts of Canada are very different, arguably more European, from the US in regards to nudity. For example, there is a famous clothing-optional beach (Wreck Beach) literally across the street from the University of British Columbia that is frequented by people of all ages, body types, and sexual orientations. Also, BC law apparently does not require children under the age of 12 to wear clothing unless required by local regulations and the Canadian constitution allows women of all ages to be topless in BC’s public pools (previous laws were stuck down due to age discrimination) and private groups must be allowed to rent BC’s public pools for nude swimming.</p>
<p>Why is an “Arizona based religious liberties group” sticking nose in something that is happening at a secular institution of higher learning in Washington State? They don’t have enough to do persecuting supposedly “illegal” aliens on the basis of their appearance?!
And how did they become involved in the first place?
It seems to me that the biggest issue here is that a children’s swim team is using a facility under conditions that might be questionable and are those kids being properly supervised? I must assume that the high school coaches have worked out the logistics long ago.
It’s always been my experience that women wear towels in the sauna…</p>
<p>Personally I think all locker rooms should have curtained private changing areas. </p>
<p>The one thing that I fail to understand is that the 45 year old person involved, did not have the maturity, consideration, or sensitivity she is demanding of others to at least find a modicum of privacy to change in, and to cover up in the sauna. She of all people should be sensitive to people feeling uncomfortable in locker room situations so I cannot understand why she did not undertake to make those around her less uncomfortable. I’m sure she is aware that even though she feels she is a woman, on the outside, she is not one (yet) and that other women in the locker room might be uncomfortable.</p>
<p>I am having funny memories of the JCC in the neighborhood where my 3 boys grew up. There was a strictly enforced rule that children 5 and older had to use the same-sex locker room. There was also a strictly enforced rule that children under 13 could not be in the locker room without a parent or other adult.</p>
<p>My kids used to change in the unisex family bathroom between the locker rooms. We always used to get yelled at.</p>
<p>We ended up joining the community pool instead. So did scores of other families.</p>
<p>From what I know, there’s substantial disagreement as to whether or not she did cover up, or, at worst, failed by a second to cover up on time when someone walked in on her unexpectedly. But I don’t think anyone (by which I mean, anyone without a political agenda of attacking trans people at any and all opportunities) is claiming in good faith that she exposed herself on purpose. As I said, there have been members of the same high school swim team quoted as saying they have no problem with her and don’t understand what the fuss is all about. I don’t think you have any basis whatsoever to accuse her of lack of maturity, consideration, or sensitivity. Just about every trans woman I’ve ever talked to is extremely sensitive, for very obvious reasons, about avoiding any kind of conduct that could be misconstrued or could subject them to public condemnation. Not that it’s ever possible for a trans woman who’s visibly trans or otherwise “out” to avoid those kinds of consequences entirely.</p>
<p>My sentiments exactly, which makes me think there is something inaccurate about the story. Either, as DonnaL stated, the exposure was an accident (which I would like to know the circumstances of), or there is reason for those affected to be upset.</p>
<p>“I don’t think too many people would be happy if all the balding trans guys with beards were walking around women’s locker rooms all of a sudden!” (sorry, haven’t figured out how to make the ‘quote’ feature work, yet)</p>
<p>As a transman myself, please remember that not all transsexual men are balding with beards – I happen to be in my early twenties, full head of hair (<em>knock on wood</em>), slender and about average male height. I choose to be clean-shaven most of the time and am considered to be a very attractive man. Just thought I point out that at least 50% of us do not fit the stereotype.</p>
<p>While I realize that my opinion is somewhat biased, but the woman in question has been through enough without having people complaining that her bits are making OTHER PEOPLE uncomfortable. They’re probably making HER a lot more uncomfortable than other cis-women. “Those parts” body is probably a lot more uncomfortable for her to look at than other people: that’s what gender dysphoria means.</p>
<p>I salute the school for letting her use the women’s facilities. My college was like, “whelp, congrats on getting your name changed, now good luck in the men’s bathrooms!” I’ve found out ways to pass, but if I need to shower or strip completely, I’m out of luck. So good for the college in question.</p>
<p>The kids should get their own changing space. WHY are the kids mixed in with the adults if they’re without a parent?</p>
<p>If the cis-women are college kids, they’re old enough and they’re get over it. They’re going to see nudity in both sexes in college soon enough.</p>
<p>I question the exposure. Has anyone bothered to verify it happened or did someone almost see something? Being transgendered, the last thing this lady wants is any hassle or problems, so she would be extremely careful to prevent just such an incident from ever happening. I know from experience that “sightings” are accused easily when others are looking for something and have no idea of the truth. “She exposed her *****, I saw it!” “Excuse me, I am a female and I only have female parts, so what could they have seen?” Ended that discussion but no one would further question why the accusation… No apology for the embarrassment, nothing!</p>
<p>People looking for something, can see things not visible. If it happened I would expect it was a very unusual happening. The female being discussed doesn’t want any one seeing these parts even more so than what others want to be seeing them! With curtains installed the problem should be over! </p>
<p>I have gone through this when I was younger, I know how care I and other friends were to prevent just such exposures!</p>
<p>I was recently at a concert and saw a dad taking a little girl into the men’s room with him (he didn’t actually take her in–he left her right outside the door where he could hear her–I guess he had nobody to leave her with while he went). But as they were going down the stairs into the men’s room, this little kid was saying, “Daddy, I’m a WOMAN, I have to go into the WOMEN’S bathroom.”</p>