I have no pity for this self-centered World Champion & Olympic medalist who has abandoned her own daughter, turned down multiple offerings of free housing (not shelters) just to live a care free life.
Seattle has about 8,600 homeless people.
Seattle / King County total of homeless persons is about 12,500.
“the main thing I see is that certain people here think of the homeless as “them”, not “us”, Since these people are “them”, they do not deserve the support, aid, and treatment that people who belong to “us” deserve.”
WRONG. Wrong on every level. No one here said they don’t deserve support or aid or treatment. You’re reading into what people are posting and drawing your own conclusion based on personal bias and what you believe they’re really saying. Just because someone has a different idea on how to help them doesn’t mean they don’t care.
“People belonging to “them” are poor because they’re lazy and parasitic, and not REALLY mentally ill, but just faking it, and choose to take drugs because they’re weak and, again, lazy. On the other hand, people from “us” are poor because they are unlucky, suffer from REAL mental illness and are addicted because of One Bad Decision”
Let’s be honest about it - it’s not one type or the other, it’s BOTH.
In our area a local outreach group offered shelter to some homeless people who were hanging around a local McDonalds. None accepted. This should simply not be allowed. If there is a bed somewhere, a warm place, they should not be allowed to camp on the public sidewalk because they want to. Homeowners in that area have rights too.
And as for NIMBYism, well when a homeless shelter moves in, so do the drugs, the prostitutes and crime. The shop and restaurant owners of Olvera Street in downtown Los Angeles are complaining mightily about how their business has dropped off since the city opened a shelter near there.
Closer to home, a local business owner I know fought a facility opening that shared the same parking lot with his business. He lost. He sold his business. He knew he’d lose his customers. So one less tax paying, job producing business on that street.
Drugs must be made so difficult to get that users cannot use. That’s why long sentences for dealers should be mandated. There should be no needle give away freebies. That would clean up a lot of people. Petty crime must be prosecuted, not just a catch and release as seems to be happening now. Obviously the current practices are not working and are making the situation worse.
“Drugs must be made so difficult to get that users cannot use.”
Prohibition has taught us that doesn’t work and can bring more problems like more organized crime. People will find a way.
Prosecuting petty crime more intensely with longer jail sentences creates hardened criminals.
Ending needle giveaways leads to other issues which are costly to society.
It complex. If it was that easy, it wouldn’t be an issue.
This isn’t a “prohibition issue” when marijuana & alcohol are legally available.
So you arrest someone for possesion, put them in jail for a few weeks (since the jails are overcrowded) and then let them out to remain homeless? How is that any kind of solution?
Or you incarate people for decades for simiple possesion? Where does that end? Mass incarcertaion is not working.
As Cardinal Fang said, “they” cannot put “them” in mental hospitals unless they are a danger to themselves or others and being homeless is not a crime nor a sign that someone is a danger to themselves under most circumstances.
One issue is that communities are unwilling to accept even a small, well supervised group home for mentally ill people or a halfway house for those coming out of addiction treatment. Many of these homes are small, with supervision, and do not constitute any greater risk to the community than any other home. Construction of affordable housing, especially low income rental units, typically only occurs when forced. It is not a big money maker for developers and many towns do not want “those peolple” in their towns even though many of those people are working poor. In some cases, environmental regulations, which have many benefits, lead to less opportunity to build affordable housing.
The mental health crisis is huge and under-funded. But not clear how to preserve an individual’s civil rights while getting them to accept effective treatment. The government cannot force someone to take meds. And meds are not always affordable or effective.
That being said, other residents, worker and residents have rights as well. one of my kids worked in a coffee shop and they had to control the bathrooms with locks for customers only and put in a sharps container for the addicts. There were even a few that ODed in the bathroom. That is not good for the store, the workers of the public. And it certainly should be illegal to use a park as a restroom, even if you are allowed to live there.
I wish there was a viable solution.
@roycroftmom Check out thing like healthcare and social welfare in all of these countries, before you compare them to the USA. France has socialized medicine, as does the UK. In every single one of those countries, the minimum wage is much higher than in the USA, healthcare costs are much lower, and are actually free for the unemployed, and income inequality is far less than in the USA.
So they’re doing a much better job at providing affordable homes, living wages, affordable healthcare, which is free for people living in poverty, etc, for the homeless. they are doing their best to get the homeless off the streets by helping them. In all of those countries, there are processes working to get treatment and housing for the homeless. Processes that you have no interest in having in the USA.
Seriously, how can you even compare the USA to EU countries when talking about dealing with poverty?
For these countries, the response to the homeless crisis is “how do we take care of these people?”. The response here is “how do we get rid of these people?”. You demonstrate absolutely zero understanding of how those European countries are dealing with their homeless crises, and are making assumptions based on how you THINK they’re dealing with them.
How did Vienna solve its homeless problem? They didn’t arrest them all, chase them out of the city, or throw them into an encampment. They provided them with affordable housing. Look it up.
Do you think that London doesn’t have homeless people sleeping everywhere? In December a homeless person died in Westminster. Just because you ignore them doesn’t mean that they are not there. Of course, unlike here, the government’s response wan’t cracking down and arresting them all, but trying to find places for them to live
As for Paris, have you ever actually visited Paris in your life? I don’t think so, since if you had, you would have know how many homeless people live everywhere there. Avoiding human feces along the banks of the Seine is a common way to help you wake up in the morning, Again, though, they are trying to figure out ways to find them accommodations, not throw them in jail.
@mom2and : You wrote in an above post: “I wish that there was a viable solution.”
There is & it is working in Providence, Rhode Island. Just watch the entire hour long YouTube video released this year “Seattle is Dying”. It is professionally written, produced & edited.
I lived in San Francisco in the 1970’s. I worked downtown. I don’t recall any vagrants on the street although there may have been a few. I never had to step over feces. I never saw anyone urinating in public. What has happened in the last forty years needs to be reversed back to how things were then. Whatever was done then, needs to be redone now.
Yes , MWolf, I have both visited and lived in those cities as an American expat. You ask for American cities, and I cite Houston, Columbus and Salt Lake. You may not like the programs they used to address the issue, but the citizens of those cities seem satisfied with the results, and contrary to your implication, there are many decent compassionate citizens there who care about the public good, but perhaps define it differently than you. They took a different approach to solving the problem than apparently SF or Seattle are willing to take at this time. Perhaps Providence has had success as well, per another poster. Contrary to your statement, in all those US cities I mentioned there are processes to help the homeless-successful ones, for a change. Take a look at them sometime. You might even visit. I promise, those in flyover country don’t bite.
While it has been interesting, I do tire of being insulted and told I have “zero understanding” and a “lack of compassion” so I will leave this thread now. Best regards to all.
I have no idea. I was just mentioning what another poster noticed in their community. That’s why I suggested that it would be good for each community to assess what percentage of their homeless population comes from each group I mentioned above so services targeted at those groups could be brainstormed. I’ll take a guess that there is a higher percentage of this type of population on a beautiful, warm coastline than a cold, snowy region. No matter how small the “lifestyle/blogger” population may be, they are taking away resources from those who truly need it.
I have no faith in our government to solve this issue. The men and women who have served our country make up a large percentage of the homeless population. A high percentage were from poor areas prior to service. Something like 40% suffer from mental health issues and over half are substance abusers. To me it is shameful that our veterans are suffering this way.
@Leigh22 So are you resigned to have no solution to this problem - or do you see a solution in something other than the government - and if so, what/who/how?
Just like racists, sexist, toxic male, classist, ‘insert’phobe, privileged’insert’. Yup, we all love our very own favorite conversation shutter-downers.
" To me it is shameful that our veterans are suffering this way."
Agreed. Easy to give lip service to “thank you for your service” but little in the way of actual help.
Just a correction on numbers and a sad, however positive statistic. US Veterans make up approximately 12% of the total adult homeless population. There has been a 5% decline in the homeless rate among men and 9% decline in the rate in women from 2017-2018. The next point in time count is this year. Since a new initiative with the VA in 2010, the overall rate of homeless vets has decreased over 50%. This is a positive start and involves Federal, State and local community efforts. I think we need to look at this approach on a regional basis and try to create a program for others.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Might I remind members of the forum rules: “Our forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place.”
Let’s support each other instead of throwing shade at one another. This discussion is hanging by a thread as it is since it’s getting a bit debate-y. But the issue is valid, so I’d like not to have to shut down the discussion. However, comments like “You clearly don’t understand” (I’m paraphrasing) don’t belong. But to be fair, it was in response the baiting comment “You clearly believe we’re to dumb to understand” (paraphrasing again), which also does not belong. There is a way to get the point across without being snide.
@ECmotherx2, that is awesome to hear! I hope this year’s count brings more good news. My 90-year-old dad is a Korean War vet and I’ve been actively involved in the care of both my parents for the last 7 years. Taking him to his VA appointments over these years, I’ve seen a concerted effort in our area to bring more services and funds to our vets. Glad to hear more is being done for all our vets, especially the homeless.
It would lead (and has led in places where there used to be needle exchanges that were shut down) to skyrocketing HIV and Hep C infections.
There will be many more homeless people following legalization of marijuana and many more dying from overdoses. I’m fairly certain urban street dealers will begin lacing their marijuana to compete with the dispensaries popping up on every other corner in the 'hood. They are that ruthless. Stay tuned.