Triumph of the Authoritarians

Parent Cafe
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<p>You can call me arrogant, don’t really care…</p>

<p>Missing the point, zoosermom, it is NOT that they could not leave, it is the way they felt about her as a boss</p>

<p>Guess you calling me a pot means I have metal sides and can sit on a burner with no pain…excellent…or am I the kind you smoke, or something you put a plant in…</p>

<p>And that makes FS a kettle with metal sides and she can sit on a stove…neat!! But is that neat as in tidy or cool…is it cool as in cold or in groovey…groovey is in have indented lines or hip…is that hip as in the area below the waste, or …</p>

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<p>Leanid, I do not know how to interpret the finer points of your post. Since I am not FS who loves to weave and spin words into extremely subtle tapestries of words, I’ll wait to read the Cliffs’ notes on Spiro and smelly posts. </p>

<p>However, I’d like to think that the weightlessness of their life’s experience is only relevant when experience is the sole focus of the debate. For what it is worth, one could add timeliness to the list of key ingredients, as recent experiences might carry more weight than old and distant memories. </p>

<p>For instance, would it be acceptable for high school juniors and seniors to dismiss all opinions of parents on standardized tests because elders haven’t seen the inside of a classroom in ages, let alone the inside of a TCB booklet? Would it be fair for me to preface any debate on the current SAT with a pointedly dismissive “Well, when did you take the test lately?” Isn’t it a sign of greater intellectual integrity to attempt to judge one’s opinion on the sole basis of the expressed opinion?</p>

<p>Oh well, thanks to the conservation of written and spoken words, younger minds such as FS or myself can always indulge in reading about great public contributions -despite not having the luxury of a personal recollection. So, I’ll leave with a small tidbit of one our greatest historical figures: </p>

<p>“I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent’s youth and inexperience.”</p>

<p>Amen!</p>

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<p>CGM posts: “Missing the point, zoosermom, it is NOT that they could not leave, it is the way they felt about her as a boss”</p>

<p>Of course it’s the point. Victims of fascism don’t have the freedom to choose whether to remain involved with the fascist. If you have the choice to walk out safely, the person in charge of you is not a fascist.</p>

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<p>No its not the point…have you ever used a word to describe someone that was ot an EXACT dictionary definition?</p>

<p>I have…yes indeedy…over time, words change…they often become a way of describing something that in a throw back to an earlier time</p>

<p>for instance, do I literally mean that my Hs friends are cave dwelling, 50,000 year old (or thereabouts) creatures when I call them neandrethals…no…it means that they have charateristics that are similar enough that I use the word</p>

<p>did you mean I was really a POT? come on did you?</p>

<p>Take a look at the word liberal, or say conservative? or even Republican</p>

<p>Back in Lincoln’s day, Republican did not have the same political mindset it does today, the word has shifted over time</p>

<p>Have you ever been read the Riot Act? </p>

<p>Ever use a Bandaid?</p>

<p>Make a Xerox?</p>

<p>Some other definitions of fascism</p>

<p>a powerful, dictatorial leader who portrays the nation, state or collective as superior to the individuals or groups composing it.
often </p>

<p>Fascist An advocate or adherent of fascism.
A reactionary or dictatorial person.</p>

<p>fascist
n, adj
Definition: authoritarian
Antonyms: democrat, liberal</p>

<p>fascist
noun

  1. An exponent or supporter of Fascism or (loosely) anyone with extreme right-wing nationalistic, etc views.
    Thesaurus: authoritarian, autocrat, totalitarian, absolutist, skinhead (slang).
  2. A member of the ruling party in Italy from 1922-43, or a similar party elsewhere, in particular the Nazi party in Germany.
    Form: Fascist
    adj
  3. Belonging or relating to Fascism.
    Thesaurus: authoritarian, autocratic, totalitarian, dictatorial, absolutist, despotic.</p>

<p>hesaurus words for “fascist”:
absolute, aristocratic, authoritarian, autocratic, autonomous,
bureaucratic, civic, civil, constitutional, democratic, despotic,
dictatorial, federal, federalist, federalistic, governmental,
gubernatorial, heteronomous, matriarchal, matriarchic, monarchal,
monarchial, monarchic, monocratic, official, oligarchal,
oligarchic, parliamentarian, parliamentary, patriarchal,
patriarchic, pluralistic, political, republican, self-governing,
theocratic, totalitarian</p>

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<p>CGM We can argue till the cows come home, but as far as Leona is concerned, my answer to the complainers is “get another job.”</p>

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<p>Again missing the point…they voiced an OPINION of what she waslike to work for…and many did quit, but those that stayed, it does not make their thoughts about her somehow less because they stayed</p>

<p>Get another job…okay, so single mom, just quit and maybe, if you be lucky, you can get that job within a week…especially if you are living paycheck to paycheck…</p>

<p>not as easily said as done</p>

<p>but as you can see, calling someone a fascist does not have to mean they lived in 1942 Italy</p>

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<p>And I think you owe me an apology for calling me a kitchen item…nah…i will let that go</p>

<p>And FS should be miffed for being called a pot, whichever one you meant…but she is a forgiving type</p>

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<p>CGM: “Get another job…okay, so single mom, just quit and maybe, if you be lucky, you can get that job within a week…especially if you are living paycheck to paycheck…”</p>

<p>you do know that I’m a lowly administrator and my husband is a garbage man, right?</p>

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<p>.just that sometimes to walk away from a bad boss is not that easy…</p>

<p>Hey my H is a contractor, self employed…and I help his business</p>

<p>My mom was a teacher, with some great principals, and yes, some fascist ones</p>

<p>The teacher in my Ds 7th grade class could not be described as anything less than fascist…and believe me we complained, etc., but the choice was made to stick it out, because switching at that point would have hurt HS choices</p>

<p>My H works with his hands, a glass man…and I have to tell you…we tip our garbage men every Christmas, they are worth every penny…</p>

<p>Lets call a truce…at least until the next thing that get our blood going…deal?</p>

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<p>CGM Posted: “Lets call a truce…at least until the next thing that get our blood going…deal?”</p>

<p>I’m not serious on this thread. Just pushing your buttons a little bit. Truce for sure.</p>

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<p>xiggi,</p>

<p>That is one of the best lines Reagan ever delivered (this, based on my lengthy familiarity with his career – ha, ha), but the truth is that the effect proved opposite to the words in his message – smarter man than we thought!</p>

<p>“However, I’d like to think that the weightlessness of their life’s experience is only relevant when experience is the sole focus of the debate. For what it is worth, one could add timeliness to the list of key ingredients, as recent experiences might carry more weight than old and distant memories.”</p>

<p>Isn’t experience rarely the SOLE focus of a debate? And, speaking of debates, what we are doing right now is as good an example as any.</p>

<p>It is the age old question of youthful vim and vigor versus mature caution and deliberateness. In youth (and I remember this from my own time) one may have all the best ideas, yet those ideas are not tempered by the realities of life. How often have we heard of great men and women changing their views on life as they age. Well, it happens to EVERYONE. Experience, experience, experience.</p>

<p>I agree that “timeliness” is useful and may be best exploited by the young - if by that you mean all the current “happenings” that youth is so attuned to. By the way, often times “older” people tune out of “happenings” because they have a perspective that their younger counterparts cannot have (naturally), much as you probably have a perspective on children’s toys, so that you do not feel you have to “keep up” with all the latest, say, “action figures” because you have moved on…and that brings up another thing, that life is every bit as interesting for each age we go through – it is just that we find interest in DIFFERENT things, but they are no less demanding of our enegies! Believe that. But, getting back to my previous point (sorry about the rambling) – current timeliness, if you will, is only part of a much larger whole called human events/history. In that whole, all else being equal, I would take an older person every time over a younger one – for the perspective, if nothing else. And, perspective is crucial if one is not to lose one’s way.</p>

<p>I like that we have both, young and old, because where the old will advise and say what works and what doesn’t, the young will constantly test them on their advice – perhaps just to see if the old hadn’t missed something along the way that would show why something COULD be done – and THAT, my dear xiggi, is youth’s greatest contribution to this whole mystery we call life – and we value it equally.</p>

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<p>

I don’t know the details of FountainSiren’s education but her words and turn of phrase are superior. It’s not arrogance, it’s ability.</p>

<p>The validity of anyone’s opinion at CC and any reputable online discussion forum isn’t related to their age, experience, education, or reputation. It’s based solely on whether they have a valid point. My opinions and yours can be wrong today; right tomorrow; and somewhere in between on the other days. Our arguments will stand or fall based on their internal logic and how effectively we communicate them. In my opinion FountainSiren and Xiggi, to name just two, frequently offer effective and logical comments that I benefit from reading.</p>

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<p>There’s another great old line out there…“youth is wasted on the young.” Probably true in many, if not most cases, but decidedly not so in the case of our young friends FountainSiren and Xiggi. I benefit from reading their comments as well, DrJ. (Julius Erving was a neighbor of mine, years ago…no, it can’t be…)</p>

<p>And to fill you in on FS–valedictiorian of a top NJ HS, freshman at Dartmouth already writing for The Dartmouth Review and taken under the wing of Professor Jeffrey Hart, one of Dartmouth’s most esteemed professors, currently interning with The New Criterion in NYC. Not bad for a kid barely old enough to drive. I hope to be as well-read as her some day. If I seem proud to say I knew her back in the day, I am. Same for Xiggi.</p>

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<p>Cheers, as a liberal from the 1960’s anti-war days, who is unrepentant and probably becoming more left wing as time goes on, I have some theories as to why some of these folks have become embittered right wingers or cynical of all politics or government. 1) they were rigid marxist leninists who were left with nothing when the faith crumbled, 2) they have suffered some personal disappointment or 3) they have refrained from participating in liberal causes, which are always populated with those who currently have hope which is contagious. Being a liberal or leftist nowadays requires a gneral sense of hope.<br>
This is anecdotal from my own experience. Does perhaps the second or third apply to your father?</p>

<p>As an example Kerry’s weak wish washy campaign in many ways made me sick, but I went to Flirida for a week to work on protecting the vote and to aid the Kerry campaign. There were folks in Talahassee from all over the countrty and even from other countires working on the campaign. Their enthusiasm was contagious. It gave me hope that things can change and of course on an existential level felt good for me to do what I could.</p>

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<p>Warning: Further hijack ahead…</p>

<p>There is so much talent among CC students, particularily the ones who hold their own in the parent forum. Even when I think they’ve got it wrong, I get a charge reading their riffs.</p>

<p>Still, despite those moments of brilliance, they are still 19 and 20 years old. A brilliant 19 year old is not the same thing as a brilliant 50 year old. The students have miles to go and loads to learn–which must be part of the reason they hang around this forum. Their talent is challenged and encouraged. In my view, talent gets more benefit out of challenge than encouragement.</p>

<p>I hadn’t heard that FS was in NYC. I’m thrilled for her. When you have a prodigious young talent, there’s no better habitat than the top of the pyramid where you will be surrounded by other prodigious peer talent. The top of the pyramid is the place to sharpen intellect and creativity–overwhelming as it may seem at times.</p>

<p>I’ve seen brilliant talent ruined by too much adult praise–too much praise leads to an over-developed and surreal sense of brilliance. In fact, ruin is the most common fate of the brilliant young 20 year olds I’ve known in my lifetime. Very, very few manage to live up to adult expectations and praise. To avoid that ruin, young talent should put itself at the top of a pyramid with equally brilliant peers and listen to peer praise–only.</p>

<p>tex…I’m not sure my father fits those categories. He no longer works for liberal political causes, obviously, but he does work for liberal charities and non-political civic causes; ie don’t let that highway go through that neighborhood. Every life has it’s disappointment, but my father lives in a beautiful world that he and my mother built for themselves–surrounded by love and plenty of everything.</p>

<p>No, I think my father is part of a larger social movement. The door to extreme conservatism was opened in the 70s, (by Young Democrats leaving the scene perhaps? Or Jimmy Carter?), and when he went through to see what conservatism was all about, he became ensnared by the emotive campaigns of right-wing talking media heads. Twenty five years on, he cannot look even look through that door. He cannot discuss any alternate views without bubbling over into a state of anger and anxiety. His political boil point is just below the surface. That emotional boil has sometimes caused him to behave in the most irrational manner–shunning clergy friends who disagreed with his views. It’s a shame.</p>

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<p>

Speaking as a non-brilliant 51-year-old, I don’t see that many brilliant 50-year-olds here.</p>

<p>PS to Allmusic - 51.</p>

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<p>LOL! How old are you, DRJ4?</p>

<p>(PS, I see a good deal of 50 year old brilliance here, myself.)</p>

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<p>First of all,</p>

<p>Xiggi and Aries,
I thank you both for your well thought out and kind observations. For me, you have both set a standard for reasoning and skillfulness that I often seek to emulate. By far two of the most informative and entertaining posters on CC—by far! A model I think many should aspire to. </p>

<p>Xiggi,
You have perhaps the clearest mind I’ve come across—amongst virtual people.
Aries,
FWIW, you are not the first person to point out to me that this sort of treatment does not attach to young men. Nonetheless, I will just take it personal, as it is intended ;)</p>

<p>Worth noting: 2 of the youngest posters in this forum.</p>

<p>.</p>

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<p>DRJ4,</p>

<p>You said some awfully nice things (and true?). Thanks a lot!</p>

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<p>

Oh, give me a freakin’ break. I had read somewhere that some think we boomers suffer from a cult of self-worship. Case made.</p>