TSA- What are are our rights?

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

I’d personally like to know how anyone could look themselves in the mirror everyday knowing they were touching the genitals/breasts of fellow human beings and/or seeing their nude bodies. There is a host of people who have crossed the line in this whole practice but it includes the TSA agents who are “hands on” so to speak.

</p>

<p>Oh, please. Mammogram technicians do so everyday. Gynecologists and urologists do so every day. They’re just doing a job. Please, don’t flatter yourselves that you’re all so hot that the TSA people are rubbing their hands together in anticipation of getting their hands on you. Why you can’t all think of it the same way you’d think about a doctor or nurse doing a medical examination is beyond me.</p>

[3katz]

<p>Would President Obama feel comfortable sending his wife…</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>

Why you can’t all think of it the same way you’d think about a doctor or nurse doing a medical examination is beyond me.

</p>

<p>If a doctor sexually mishandles my daughters or myself, it is a criminal offense.</p>

<p>The TSA has been granted Immunity. I’m just not comfortable with this.</p>

<p>But, more than that, just how many of our constitutional freedoms are we willing to give up? We’ve already ceded far too many, imho. YMMV</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>

The people coming into the airport this week have already had their plans and tickets for weeks, and really have little choice. But in the future, people planning trips will look for places to go where they can drive or take a train.

</p>

<p>I completely agree. I know an elderly woman who has avoided flying for years because she finds taking her shoes on and off to be too much of an effort. She would never put up with a pat down or the scanner. She is also the type of person who would wear a money belt to carry a few dollars, and her passport. Just the idea of needing to remove her money belt would also be enough to keep her from flying. Many people would think that she should not fly, because better to be safe than sorry. The airlines might disagree when they have more and more empty seats. Just to add, she relucantly recently flew to another country and put up with the shoe removal procedure (although she complained about it), but I know that she would never fly with other newer procedures.</p>

[moonchild]

<p>Actually, Pizzagirl, many people are a also nervous at the doctor’s during exams, and put them off if possible. I’m not crazy about gyno exams, and I hate mammograms. I’d never do either if it weren’t necessary for my health and well-being. Doctors and nurses are trained for many years and have been certified and licensed by medical boards, supervised and mentored by experienced doctors during their years of training, and many have built reputations over their lifetimes. Even then it’s not easy for some people to put themselves in the vulnerable position of a very personal exam like you mentioned.<br>
But TSA employees have no such qualifications. And it’s not necessary. And it’s radiation by machines that have no medical oversight.<br>
Apples and oranges.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

I completely agree. I know an elderly woman who has avoided flying for years because she finds taking her shoes on and off to be too much of an effort. She would never put up with a pat down or the scanner. She is also the type of person who would wear a money belt to carry a few dollars, and her passport. Just the idea of needing to remove her money belt would also be enough to keep her from flying.

</p>

<p>My elderly gmother is the same way. But so? I don’t see why security choices need to be made to accommodate the sensibilities of sensitive people. It’s irrelevant to the decision making process. So she doesn’t fly, so my grandmother doesn’t fly. So what? TSA’s job is to keep the skies safe, not to make things perfect for my grandmother.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>Anyone ever traveled to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem? I got patted down very thoroughly there before being allowed to enter. That’s a flashpoint for Jewish / Muslim relations (indeed, there is a sign put up by the Orthodox Jewish community saying Jews shouldn’t enter, which every Conservative and Reform Jew promptly ignores, LOL). Should I have objected?</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>

So she doesn’t fly, so my grandmother doesn’t fly. So what?

</p>

<p>Lets see if money for the airlines doesn’t change procedure over time.</p>

[moonchild]

<p>I humbly submit to you, Pizzagirl, that the sensibilities of more than elderly grandmothers and a few “sensitive people” have been tested. At least that’s what I surmise from the results of the internet blogs and news reports, as well as this thread.
Some of us-- cancer survivors, people who wear a prosthesis, people who may have had negative sexual encounters or been molested, children, (did you see the small boy who had to remove his shirt?) young teenagers, people who have religious beliefs or values that involve modesty—all kinds of people may be “sensitive” to radiation or to being groped by strangers. It doesn’t mean they are all just need to grow up.</p>

<p>Does the TSA need to accommodate these people? Only if they want them to use the service of the airlines. I guess that will come down to the airlines themselves, as they will be the only ones who’s objections, due to lack of profits, will matter to the powers that be.</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>

But TSA employees have no such qualifications. And it’s not necessary. And it’s radiation by machines that have no medical oversight.

</p>

<p>Exactly. I would avoid those machines if at all possible. I would choose a pat down. I don’t choose to have radiation to parts of the body that are protected for a small dental xray by lead shields/collar/apron. Just my opinion. YMMV.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

Lets see if money for the airlines doesn’t change procedure over time.

</p>

<p>Then that’s the free market in action - if security procedures become so onerous, people won’t fly and there will be pressure brought to bear.</p>

<p>Though I do agree a lot of this is locking the barn door after the horse has escaped …
After all, nothing prevents anyone with ill intent from walking into Grand Central Station, or any train or bus terminal, or sports stadium for that matter, and deploying an explosive.</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>

Then that’s the free market in action - if security procedures become so onerous, people won’t fly and there will be pressure brought to bear.

</p>

<p>Exactly.</p>

<p>

After all, nothing prevents anyone with ill intent from walking into Grand Central Station, or any train or bus terminal, or sports stadium for that matter, and deploying an explosive.

</p>

<p>Exactly.</p>

[Keile]

<p>Pizzagirl,</p>

<p>Would they have cared if you did?</p>

<p>Anyway, like I reiterated later, this is all much ado about nothing. </p>

<p>A series of reports have all concluded the same thing: the x-ray technology is safe.</p>

<p>For those of you who think your rights are being violated, consider getting drug checked because the courts have repeatedly declared they are not.</p>

[jym626]

<p>Looks like the company that had gone out of business, that provides expedited security clearance is BACK!! …Their timing is excellent. Wonder if this will help avoid the scanner/pat downs. Dunno.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>[Security</a> protest could disrupt Thanksgiving travel | US National Headlines | Comcast.net](<a href=“Discovery Hub - News & Technology”>Discovery Hub - News & Technology)</p>

<p>I wonder if this will really happen?</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>So much for the Rally to Restore Sanity, eh? Everyone’s going off the deep end on this issue.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>[Homeland</a> Security Today - preparedness and security news - House Leaders Protest New TSA Pat Downs](<a href=“http://www.hstoday.us/content/view/15503/128/]Homeland”>http://www.hstoday.us/content/view/15503/128/)</p>

<p>This is interesting.</p>

<p>

Thompson and Jackson Lee requested that Pistole provide, by Dec. 1: internal studies and documentation to support TSA’s decision to adopt enhanced pat downs; the extent to which pat downs are being conducted at airports and the record keeping requirements in place to document the percentage of passengers who undergo them; processes TSA has to document and review complaints about the pat downs; information on all complaints filed on the pat downs; any upcoming privacy impact assessments on the pat downs; any upcoming civil liberties assessments on the pat downs

</p>

[jazzymom]

<p>The response indicates that some widespread “adjustments” will have to be made.</p>

<pre><code>IMO, many people are upset because these new screening methods apply to them and violate their privacy but they wouldn’t protest if profiling were in place. They’d be fine with it if it only applied to some people. Mostly swarthy-looking people.
</code></pre>

[Christian2]

<p>This is an unifying issue regarless of what your political persuasion is. I hope the Congress is going to do something about it.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>Well, I’m all in for protecting the constitutional rights of the swarthy. I’m also pretty much all in for protecting the 4th amendment rights of the not swarthy…</p>

<p>One is not priveledged over the other, imho. With each right we give up, it gets easier for them to simply usurp more. YMMV</p>