TSA- What are are our rights?

<p>^ agree. People are over-reacting here based on a few reports in the media. This whole thing is being way overblown.
People have been walking through the scanners for three years now… and suddenly there is a big uproar. Is no one suspicious about this timing?</p>

<p>It’s just not feasible for the US to implement an “el al” type of security. Americans just won’t stand for soldiers patrolling airports with automatic weapons. Americans also won’t stand for a plane being blown up or another 9/11.<br>
Either suck it up or don’t fly. Drive.</p>

<p>Thank you, GTalum. I haven’t flown under these rules yet, but your reaction is what I hear from everyone who has gone through it.</p>

<p>Re: Israeli security. It can be very, very, very intrusive. If for some reason you fit a profile in which they are interested, say goodbye to the next few hours, and plan on making a later flight (if, that is, they deign to let you fly at all). Full-body searches are not out of the question. And they do not shy away from racial profiling. Theirs is not a system that would translate easily into a high-volume domestic air travel system here.</p>

<p>IMO, GTalum, part of the issue is that the TSA pat-down procedures are not done uniformly at all airports. You had a “good” one – that’s great. There are plenty of reports, though, about people having"bad" ones, i.e., performed improperly. I don’t believe that makes those people overly sensitive. Sure some people may be overreacting – and others may be too quick to scoff at the reports of people being upset.</p>

<p>What is scarier to me is that I have a big chunk of metal in my body from my total hip replacement and I only set off the metal detector 50% of the time.</p>

<p>I recall coming back from a vacation in Mexico after 9/11 (don’t recall exactly when we travelled - if it was 2001 or 2002) but I vividly remember changing planes in a small airport in Orlando that was patrolled by army reservists with M-16s. That was rather daunting.</p>

<p>Thanks for reporting in and telling us your experience, GTalum. While I don’t look forward to having someone pat me down “enhanced style” (and I have already had it in the past), I agree that I think some of the stories are being overly dramatized in the media. Sensationalism sells! Apologies if this has already been told (this is a big thread!) but I heard that the young boy who was shirtless was so because he was wearing a bulkysweatshirt. His father took it off of him and he wasnt wearing a tshirt underneath. But thats not how it was portrayed in the media.</p>

<p>I would love for Homeland security to be ahead of the game in identifying sources of threats. But for now, we have to deal with this TSA issue. I don’t like it, but I dont have as averse a reaction as some.</p>

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<p>Well, wasn’t that always a big fat duh? Anyone who’s flown in the past decade since 9/11 has known not to wear clothing loaded with metal studs, a big metal belt buckle that will set off the alarm, shoes with laces since you have to take shoes off, bras with underwires, etc. </p>

<p>It’s like the amateur flyers are coming out and are all so discombobulated by the actual experience of going through security. I swear, it’s like standing in the line behind the idiot who wears the big belt buckle and now has to take it off and holds everyone up, or the idiot who didn’t realize he couldn’t take his full bottle of Listerine and a 2 liter bottle of Pepsi through security.</p>

<p>Next, they’re going to say that the TSA has the right to open your checked bags and search them!! OMG call the authorities! Oh wait - they’ve done that for years, and all it means is that you get a nice little tag in your suitcase saying “TSA’s been here.”</p>

<p>\And if you want to talk about “rights violation” - the Israeli system, as effective as it may be, is <em>absolutely</em> far more “rights violating.” JHS is right. If they want to delay you for hours, they will, and too bad so sad.</p>

<p>There was a revealing segment on the local news about this last week. They had a guy in a suit on sounding all expert about how bad the new TSA procedures are: too much radiation, invasion of privacy, ineffective. He sounded informed and reasonable, until one of the anchors asked him what TSA SHOULD do. His answer: “If the Federal government hadn’t systematically disarmed us, there would never have been a 9/11 in the first place. Instead of trying to prevent people from carrying weapons, it should be encouraged.”</p>

<p>Oh, yes. I would feel much more secure on a jumbo jet, knowing that hundreds of my fellow-travellers each had the capacity to depressurize the plane and maybe drop it from the sky, by mistake or in a moment of rage or psychosis. That would be just great!</p>

<p>The nut factor on this is through the roof. It’s like all the birthers suddenly decided that the Feds are trying to sex them up.</p>

<p>I’ll take the scanners and the frisk, please.</p>

<p>I have had the “enhanced” pat-down at 2 different airports and TSA employees were courteous and professional both airports. Of course, I made sure to wear close fitting clothes. Is it just possible that the “bad” reports are slanted? Or, at least the exception to the rule?</p>

<p>As I posted earlier, my daughter went through one of the busy airports which does have the x-ray machines.</p>

<p>I advised her to go through the machines, and if she was selected for whatever reason for an “enhanced” (please define enhanced :eek:) search, to make sure she had it done in public and asked for witnesses. I figure that would just get rid of the creep factor. (every authority organization always has creeps in it).</p>

<p>However, she didn’t have anything happen and didn’t notice anything strange or tense or slow about travel that day.</p>

<p>While I have very little concern that anything will happen in the public pat downs, there is no doubt that some illegal stuff is going to happen in the private rooms. People being what they are.</p>

<p>I really would urge people to insist on being in public at all times. Especially teenage girls and boys travelling alone.</p>

<p>“Had my second “enhanced” pat down yesterday (replaced hip) when flying. Come on guys, how sensitive can you be. I was treated professionally and courteously. How does lightly touching your inseam of your pants and above and below your breasts remotely resemble anything lurid is beyond me. I can imagine someone feeling slightly uncomfortable, but I have much more discomfort than that on a daily basis. I would have no problems if my teenage daughter went through such a search. Grow-up everyone.”</p>

<p>Why is it that some people think that their very limited experience is the absolute norm for every one else? Have you not read <em>any</em> of the reports about American citizens who’ve done nothing in their lives to cause anyone concern being subjected to degradation? What about the poor old guy with the urostomy bag that was dislodged by a careless, rude TSA agent? What about the breast cancer survivor who had to remove her prosthetic breast? How about the rape victim who was traumatized by a TSA agent who exceeded the already too-invasive scope of the pat down? The ACLU has received over 600 complaints so far, and I expect that number to grow dramatically over the next six weeks. I suppose you’d tell all of them to “grow up” too?</p>

<p>GTalum - I think there have been a few absolutely horrendous reports - the guy with bladder cancer, the woman with the prosthetic breast, etc., that have been extensively covered in the media. While those incidents were awful - I will admit that they were a very small number - compared to the total number of people who fly every day in and out of the US. I don’t like the lack of uniformity in these procedures - and I am wary of how children are being treated - but for the average adult without any special medical issues - I think we can calm down.</p>

<p>How ironic that people who don’t wish to be subjected to these new procedures are told to “suck it up,” by the very same people who are so very terrified of a one in 1,000,000 (or some other number that rounds to zero), chance that a terrorist will kill them.</p>

<p>I do wonder how those of you who say that Americans should be subjected to any and all indignities ever manage to step outside of your houses in the morning? You are aware that there’s a non-zero probability that you’ll be killed in a car accident–and in fact that probability is much, much higher than the chance of dying in any type of air accident from any cause–pilot error, mechanical failure or terrorism? How do you sleep at night, knowing there’s a non-zero chance that your house will burn down or a home invasion may occur?</p>

<p>I suppose you never take trains either because of the chances of a 7/7 type situation (London Tube bombings in 2005), or the Madrid train bombings (2004 I think)?</p>

<p>I get it that many people cannot comprehend basic cost-benefit analysis (though we all practice this unconsciously), but it’s a sad day when anyone who questions the need for these intrusions is regarded as a coward. Or the opinion of some, who think that those of us who doubt the need for this are ignorant rubes who never set foot on an airplane. Baloney.</p>

<p>If there were any degree of accountability by TSA, or a guarantee that we would not be needlessly humiliated in the process of providing “security,” then those of us who have something to lose in this process would have no problem with it. Apparently many of you think that it’s perfectly A-OK to humiliate anyone with an ostomy appliance because such people are “old,” pitiable, and insignificant. I’m here to tell you that there are many younger, active, and very fit people who have these things. You’d never guess that I had one and I certainly do not want this to be openly displayed at an airport or anywhere else. Why? Because apparently people are sympathetic to the very dreadful things done to women with breast cancer, but anyone who had colon cancer or Crohn’s disease or bladder cancer is apparently fair game to be sneered at and mocked. And I am hearing reports that people with ostomies are being asked to display them (and sorry, this does NOT fall within the same category as a trip to the doctor’s–that anyone can believe that public display to TSA personnel is equivalent to the privacy of the doctor’s office is laughable).</p>

<p>Apparently some TSA people do not know what an ostomy appliance is, so they’ve subjected some unfortunate people to the extra pat-down and/or made them expose the appliance. I went through O’Hare’s scanners last July with no problem and no extra measures, so I am hopeful that at least TSA is able to hire from a higher-quality labor pool here in Chicago and I won’t have problems here. Certainly reason to confine my travel to major cities, which I do anyway.</p>

<p>I am sick and tired of hearing about the need for enhanced security in the wake of 9/11 and the loser “underwear bomber.” The 9/11 guys walked through metal detectors with box cutters, right? And let’s see, the underwear guy’s own father tried to turn him in to the US government (and was ignored), boarded a plane on a one-way ticket paid for with cash, checking no luggage on a transatlantic flight. </p>

<p>But yet those of us who believe these procedures are unnecessarily intrusive are ignorant cowards. Yeah, right.</p>

<p>Silpat, I’m sorry for your experiences. I think we’ll have some people like you who are understandably unwilling to fly under the circumstances and it sounds that a more minimalist pat-down is not acceptable to you either. What do you suggest as an alternative?</p>

<p>For those of you worried about your carry on items, this is an October news item about a TSO who was arrested for stealing. He was a supervisor and in addition to whatever he had taken, if another TSO stole, he would take a kickback to stay quiet.
[Michael</a> Arato, TSA Supervisor, Allegedly Stole Cash from Passenger Bags at Checkpoint - ABC News](<a href=“TSA Supervisor Allegedly Stole Cash from Passenger Bags - ABC News”>TSA Supervisor Allegedly Stole Cash from Passenger Bags - ABC News)</p>

<p>"On a given shift, Arato would pocket approximately $400 to $700 from passengers, according to U.S. Attorney Paul J. Fishman.</p>

<p>“Arato literally made a game of stealing hundreds of dollars a day from individuals standing in the security lane,” Fishman said in a statement. “That he targeted them based on their inability to speak English is especially offensive.”</p>

<p>Silpat-
Sorry for your challenges. PErhaps a letter for a doctor might help.Alternatively, I am wondering if registering for programs that do background checks and allow for speedy security processe is worth considering. Membership isnt cheap, but it night be woth it for folks who , for a variety of reasons, really cant tolerate a pat down. Good luck.</p>

<p>Right, so anyone who wears an underwire bra is an idiot? Gee whiz, I had no idea! With my 35-23-33 figure, I believe I’d be an idiot to wear anything else. And in many years of flying–sorry to shoot holes in your theory, but I’m no “amateur,” I’ve been wanded exactly once for my bra.</p>

<p>Just saw your post, Silpat. So sorry for your condition and I completely understand your hesitation about undergoing this experience.</p>

<p>OMG!! I had to open my bag and let it be searched before I entered Wrigley Field this weekend, to make sure I wasn’t bringing in a) alcohol or b) a gun or explosives. Where are my rights, I tell you?! </p>

<p>If all pat-downs were professionally conducted – which of course they should be – what on earth is the big deal about them?</p>

<p>Wow europa, congrats on your figure. I wish I had such a good excuse to be wanded :)</p>

<p>I was JUST going to say the same thing about europa, GTalum!! LOL. And add that I want her diet plan!!</p>