The whole hungry discussion seems a bit of a diversion from the real issue which is that college tuition has risen 70-percent according to the article. Spending 50K dollars a year on tuition and eating at a food bank is just crazy in every way and pretending the issue is the cost of a meal plan or dining hall hours is bizarre. The hunger part of it for what it’s worth is not attacking the actual issue at all. It just sounds nicer.
One of my kids never had a meal plan and never wanted one and spends about 400-dollars a month on food supplemented by campus pizza, doughnuts, and recruitment dinner food which I hear is very good. The other had a meal plan for a year and now agrees it was a terrible waste and currently works at an organic frou-frou restaurant off campus where there is a 17-dollar food allowance on workdays. On campus jobs are work-study students first which means unavailable to anyone else.
I don’t think anyone is saying they shouldn’t even try, but that you have to be smart about it, ESPECIALLY when you don’t have a safety net. That’s exactly the situation, where you can’t just go and hope everything works out for the best. It’s not easy, but the kind of change that’s needed to fix these problems isn’t going to be fixed by lengthening dining hall hours. In my opinion, meal plans are way overpriced, which is why attending a school where you can avoid the meal plan can be particularly prudent. There needs to be more affordable options, but (to my knowledge) no one here has really proposed any realistic ones. I don’t think anyone is saying there isn’t a problem or that it’s a trivial one. But for the kids going to school right now, you have to be realistic.
In my opinion, going to a school that is not affordable is short-sighted. Telling kids you should go to a college you can’t afford because it’ll save your life or lift you out of poverty or all work out better isn’t helpful either. Neither is telling kids to just go and cross your fingers that the money will be there. We definitely need to make higher education more affordable, but that’s a very long-term plan. In the meantime, perhaps, helping parents and students (especially low-income families that don’t have as many resources) navigate the way college education works now would be helpful for the kids that are going to school before any of these hypothetical changes are made. Not so much “bootstraps” as “teach a man to fish,” if we want to get into the cliches =D
Perhaps, I’m biased because this is what my parents did. Learned a trade, worked hard, and lived frugally so that they could (and did!) send all of their kids to college. Sometimes upward mobility takes generations, and while that’s unfortunate, it’s not something that’s shameful or should be looked down upon.
No need to be rude and inconsiderate. Everyone comes from different walks of life and different perspectives. I think it’s important for everyone to realize that you’re way of thinking isn’t necessarily the right or the only way of thinking. Saying that you pity others who think differently than you do and that they have “less enlightened” thoughts than you isn’t helpful or productive.
I don’t see anyone here saying any of those things. Nobody knows all the costs of going to college until they get there. They don’t know what books they need or how much they’ll cost until they get the syllabus and visit the bookstore. They don’t know how much the food costs until they go to the dining hall and get to see the menu. It’s reasonable for students, and their families, to expect that when they buy a meal plan the student will have enough to eat. Unless the college offers a plan that’s all-you-can-eat or for a specified number of meals, there is no possible way of knowing that it’s going to be a tight stretch until they’re issued a meal card, visit the dining hall, and see the actual prices. It would help if colleges sent the menus and prices with the meal plan information so families could make an informed choice.
@baktrax my apologies. I’m frustrated by the lack of concern of some and the implication that the low income families and students are in the predicament they are due to stupidity. I don’t think that you are lacking in concern and like you, I don’t have answers and we both acknowledge there is a problem and that it needs fixing. That’s usually the start to finding solutions.
As for finding an affordable college, for many students there just isn’t one. I don’t think the solution is to just give up on college and not even try. Regarding parents without college educations working and being able to afford to send their children to college, years ago this was definitely more feasible than today. ( I do not consider this “shameful” or look down upon these families." On the contrary, it’s these families who need more help in making a college education, and meals while at college, affordable for their children. That’s what this thread is about. ) Of course some in the trades or those owning their own business make a good living, but the truth is that the majority are just struggling to make ends meet.
As for a student waiting to enter college so they can work and save up is also not always feasible. Minimum wage jobs are usually their only option after high school. There are exceptions if they can work in the family business, or have the ability to pay for schooling to learn a trade, but most would likely not end up going to college. It’s not as if a single gap year working is going to change the affordability of college much for most students. Some of their wages will go towards transportation, meals, and likely help for their family as well. Just as they wouldn’t have a safety net at college, they wouldn’t have one while in the work force either.
As for “teach a man to fish,” this is often best done through a college education. These students aren’t low income due to stupidity or laziness or poor work ethics, it’s because their parents aren’t able to get higher paying jobs which often require a college education. (There are exceptions, but those students are not considered low income.) A good education is the best way to break the cycle and allow these students to pursue careers with decent salaries. Part of getting that education means being able to afford both the tuition and the living expenses so they aren’t going hungry.
I do pity those who have no compassion for others. I do think we can do better as a civilized society. Others are free to disagree.
I’m wondering how much people who think that college is the best step for everyone after high school, support workers unions in their community.
Unionized jobs, can pay a decent amount and include benefits, even if you are just out of high school and limited in the positions you qualify for.
don’t see anyone here saying any of those things. Nobody knows all the costs of going to college until they get there. They don’t know what books they need or how much they’ll cost until they get the syllabus and visit the bookstore.
Actually, one way to judge the academic appropriateness of a school is by checking out the syllabi & required books for course you are interested in taking. You could do this as a high school jr when visiting the schools before you apply, or now with the internets you can do it online!
@SoMuch2Learn So what do you propose for our hypothetical student who has no affordable college (i.e. cannot afford to both go to college and feed themselves)? What would you recommend if this student posted on CC?
I think we all agree that the system is not perfect and that there are always ways to do better. And we can speculate all day on ways to improve that (I will be completely honest and say I have no real, concrete, and practical suggestion for how to make the whole system more affordable–but I’d love to hear what solutions others think would be effective), but I’m curious what would be the recommendation right now for a student who is in this position.
I’m certainly not saying that college education is only for the rich or that it is not invaluable to low income students, in particular. But I just feel that if the money’s not there, the money’s not there. I don’t know of the alternate solution (again, for the student right now, who is trying to go to college and who finds themselves, for whatever reason, in a position where they cannot afford to eat and go to school), but I would love to hear it. It’s easy to point out the reasons why forgoing a college education would be a bad idea, but what is the alternative?
@baktrax, what you’re not understanding is that many students don’t know they won’t have enough to eat until they get to college. As we all know, the best aid goes to freshmen. A student who is struggling to make ends meet in a college they enrolled in as a freshman isn’t likely to be able to come up with the money to transfer. Even going home and attending a community college isn’t a good idea because the grants they leave behind won’t be available for the last two years. The best thing they can do is stick it out and get that degree.
Some people near Harvard square may relate to this.mi waitress end at pewter pot. We got free muffins that were broken. Egg salad sandwiches at Elsie’s cost 35 cents. Soup at Pewter P OT, with employment discount, was 50 cents.
So, at my sons college, lunch and dinner, 5 days a week, was included in meal plan. There was a full kitchen on every floor. My son and others liked having freedom to eat in restaurants on weekends. His House, as the others, usually had barbecues for free at least once every weekend. I thought this was an ideal setup.
@austinmshauri I do understand that that the best aid goes to freshmen, which is why I’m such an advocate of getting good college planning into schools and community centers, particularly for disadvantaged students (which I have done–so I’m a bit biased there). And why when a poster asked what to do about the student who had no other affordable option, I said don’t go because I don’t think starving is worth it. I just wanted to know what others would recommend to the hypothetical student, and your recommendation (as I understand it) is for the student to go hungry. If it was just a matter of going skipping a meal every once in a while, but if it was a matter of regularly not eating anything on weekends (as some posters have suggested when they mention the schools with dining halls that close on weekends and no extra money to spend on food or no possibility of getting to a grocery store or restaurant or a million other reasons people gave), I think I might disagree.
@JustOneDad I was under the impression that any student in this position is already working as much as they could (or it was not physically possible to get a job) and that money was going towards other things like tuition or rent.
If that student was asking for suggestions as a senior after their acceptances and financial aid offers came in, I wouldn’t be able to make recommendations. If they or their parents were asking as a high school freshman or younger, and they have the aptitude, I would recommend that they work hard academically so they would have the best shot possible at the schools which can truly meet their financial needs. These are generally the most selective schools, so they’d need the most demanding courses available to them, a high GPA, high SAT or ACT scores, extra-curriculars, leadership, great essays, great recommendation letters, and a bit of luck. There are less selective colleges which offer incentives to high stat students, but few of these offers are full rides. Some states do offer affordable state colleges or universities, but some don’t. I would suggest that a student who knows they need lots of aid explore all options. The military academies are free, but would only appeal to some students and are highly selective and have an involved application process which must be started early. Some colleges offer free classes for their employees. Obviously this would be a slow process as a full time employee isn’t able to take many courses, but it could be an option. There would be few campus jobs available to most high school graduates.
But none of the above possibilities address the problem of students on campus who are hungry. As I said, I started this thread to raise awareness. Hunger is one of the reasons that the graduation rate for low income students is so much lower than for higher income students.
For starters the Pell grant could (and in my opinion should) be raised, but some colleges might respond by simply lowering their own grant amounts and the students would end up with the same out of pocket costs. While work study is included in most financial aid packets as part of meeting need, the reality is that sometimes the student can’t get a job on campus. Colleges may say that there is no guarantee for a job, but they may not accurately portray just how many work study eligible students don’t end up with a job. This is another thing a student may not find out until on campus. I also agree that the student won’t know their book costs until course registration. Schools vary in this as does the field of study. Students change majors. There is an unknown factor to this.
Better guidance for students would help tremendously, but the truth is that generally the high schools with higher income families tend to have more guidance counselors and better guidance than do the schools in lower income neighborhoods. Maybe there should be a program whereby college students are offered additional funds in exchange for providing guidance to high school students. This would be a benefit all around. I’m sure there’s a lot of possible solutions, and it’s time for this problem to be given the attention it deserves.
Basic survival not starving food such as a jar of peanut butter or a box of cereal is very inexpensive. I also think most residential colleges where you purchase a meal plan and students do not have cars or anywhere off-campus to go have something to eat somewhere on the grounds on weekends. I agree college is too costly. I disagree that the meal plans are the biggest problem but I would definitely avoid the meal plan if possible. It’s much cheaper to buy your own food.
Additionally, if we are talking about a low income student then they need a plan and changing majors should not be part of the plan. Too many high school students go off to four year schools to find themselves and figure out what to do next. That s a very bad reason at these prices with no financing. But, I don’t know why we are talking about low income student. If mom and dad and student are taking out a boatload of loans that can actually be worse in the long run.
@baktrax: My recommendation is based on personal experience. Getting the degree WAS worth going hungry.
My understanding of what you, and several others, are saying is that students who end up hungry in college can’t afford that college and shouldn’t go. My point (to all of you), as someone who has been in that position, is that the students don’t know it’s going to be a problem until AFTER they get to campus. Once you’ve enrolled and are at campus, you can’t simply “not go.”
Totally agree, which is why when I said better college readiness instruction in high school, I meant in lower income and poorer performing school districts. In wealthier areas, there is already much of this happening.
Where I went to school, there was an internship program where students could intern (for school credit) at the local charter schools (schools with 100% economically and educationally disadvantaged students who got in via lottery or application depending on the school) to tutor, provide help with college readiness, provide mentoring and support, etc (this program was actually how I initially become interested in the subject). What’s unfortunate was that these were the schools that were already doing so much with their students without the extra support of undergraduates. It would have been nice if the program had been able to reach out to low income and disadvantaged schools to do similar work, but there just isn’t enough support for it. The program was already being cut-back, even with how small it already was.
But sorry to change the topic, I was just curious what others would say with regards to to the question of “what is more important: college or food.” I realize that it was perhaps an extreme example, but seemed pertinent. And it seemed like a lot of people were skirting around the issue of what students should do in that very moment. Sorry, for the interruption! Carry on with what you were discussing.
EDIT: Sorry, I was typing while someone else posted
But you can, drop out, no? Isn’t that the same as “not going?” I know, I know, not exactly the same, but the option still remains. But since you’ve been in the situation, I defer to your recommendation more than my speculation.
Unions can pay well, but the jobs are not as plentiful as they used to be. And they’re count for only 11% of all jobs and shrinking, according to the Dept. of Labor. H had a union desk job all through college-it’s how he paid his tuition and most living expenses, but the entire department was moved out of state years ago to a non-union state. My son, who did not go to college (so I hardly think everybody should), tried for nearly a year to get into an entry-level job with ANY construction-based union that would have him. He never did find an opening. Instead he found a certificate program at a CC that was exactly what he needed. BUT, and this is huge, he had the financial support of his father and I (and his stepdad and stepmom) while he did this. He was not without a car, or the means to get food or shelter, or to pay for that certificate program. H got his union job because he had one of those “hands up” people who gave it to him, even though he had no experience. Those jobs are long gone. But it’s great for those who don’t WANT to go to college and they CAN find a union job.
D’s school works very, very hard to convey the “true cost” of college to its students. This is why some choose community college while living at home, some do job training and some go on to selective, out of state schools. Some go to WA directionals or the flagships. They get it. But it isn’t easy or cheap to to have a staff devoted to doing this work. I think that is where schools are lacking-in really prepping all the kids for post-high school life, which would include educating them on what expenses they might encounter even with a hefty aid package.
People keep saying “what’s the solution?” Again, there is no ONE solution. There are several. I’ve even mentioned them. We can’t reduce the cost of college right now, but educating families on what is really involved would be one really great place to start getting kids aware of college appropriateness and the realities of going directly into the workforce as an untrained 18 yo.
JustOneDad-I don’t know a single low-income student who didn’t work all through HS to save up for college, while helping pay family expenses who is sitting there not working in college. I know plenty of upper income ones who “don’t have time” to work, but somehow the lower-income ones do. Kids still need to go to class and you know, sleep, do homework and get to and from the job so they might not get all the hours they need to cover every last expense. I have never encountered such a kid expecting anything for nothing.
I expect it depends on the area.
Each meal at some universities, may work out to $8 or $9.
I have lived on box Mac & Cheese, which can serve two people, for $2.
That was before ramen was available everywhere even cheaper, and we still eat a lot of that.
I didn’t realize we have such cheap food. http://time.com/8515/hungry-planet-what-the-world-eats/
Cooking for a houseful, is * much* cheaper than going out to eat or buying your meals from a school cafeteria.
How do colleges get away w charging so much for meals when they have mega economies of scale? Why don’t they get challenged on the cost of their meal plans?
My kids pay about $8/meal. That’s $24/day for good prepared food. The FDA says eating at home is $12/day just for the groceries. Meal plans seem like a pretty good deal to me.
I think they have been challenged, GMT, but not enough. When my siblings and I went to college (3 state U’s and one private), the only option was 3 meals/day, 7 days/week, no matter which dorm you lived in. The cost was higher for the smaller dorms which had their own cooks rather than a chow line with mystery food. But you paid for it all, no matter how little you ate. A few years ago when my older D was looking at colleges, most offered multiple options for meal plans-I remember one had a 7 meal option, for dinner only. Some offer “swipes”, some unlimited, and there is much more of a range. The directional D ended up at had a gluten-free station, a vegan station, a deli bar and I don’t know what else. So we’re getting there with options.
I just checked-the USDA says as of Dec. 2014, that the average spent by a family of 4 per month ranges from about $560/mo to $1300/mo, from “thrifty” to “liberal”. We spend a bit less than $560, but I am a serious penny-pincher and we have access to a very low-cost grocery store with lots of organics. We eat well for less than I’d have to in some places. I have upper income friends in Cali who scoff at my numbers and spend $400 a WEEK for 4 people.
Looking at colleges with my youngest, meal plans seem to be all over the map, from $2,800/semester to more than double that. On that alone, I’d say the meal plans are way overpriced. My friends in Cali probably don’t think so. But, college costs in general have become so high that it’s not surprising that meal plans are too high as well.