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<p>Taiwan was traded by one occupier to another, and that other promptly put it under martial law, massacred, imprisoned and tortured Taiwanese opposed to this.</p>
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<p>The problem with that statement is that the island of Taiwan was part of the Chinese state during the Qing dynasty. </p>
<p>When Japan was defeated at the end of WWII, its occupied territories had to be ceded back to societies which had sovereignty beforehand under whatever government was in power during that period under international treaty and law…especially if they took part in defeating the Japanese empire. In the case of Taiwan island, that meant whichever government was the legal successor to the Chinese empire under the Qing dynasty. That government in 1945 was the ROC under Chiang. </p>
<p>Consequently, one cannot call the defeated Japanese Empire’s ceding of the island of Taiwan to the ROC as an occupation. </p>
<p>While the ROC’s government’s actions during 228 was extremely deplorable, one must also understand that there were many Island of Taiwan families who still held strong loyalties to the Japanese empire, harbored deep hatred and contempt for the Chinese due to decades of Imperial Japanese propaganda and volunteer service in the Japanese armed forces<em>, and stood to lose heavily financially and socially</em>* with the loss of their imperial Japanese benefactors. </p>
<p>Lee Teng-Hui’s family was one of those families. Especially considering the Imperial Japanese government policies on that island was such that college education even on the island’s own universities was reserved mainly for children of Japanese residents and Island of Taiwan resident families who were proven to be highly loyal to the Japanese empire. Lee Teng-Hui not only managed to get a college education during the period of Imperial Japanese rule, but also at one of mainland Japan’s top universities, Kyoto Imperial University(Now Kyoto U). </p>
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<li>Many were involved in some of the worst atrocities perpetuated by the Imperial Japanese armed forces during the Second Sino-Japanese War/WWII(1937-45).<br></li>
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<p>** The contempt many Island of Taiwan families had for the Chinese due to being under Imperial Japanese rule was also mutually felt by the Chinese who rightly associated them with hated Imperial Japanese foe considering unlike many other Japanese colonial possessions like Korea, the vast majority of “Taiwanese” joining the imperial Japanese forces joined were volunteers up until the very last year of the war. Lee Teng-Hui and his brother were just two of many such examples. </p>
<p>I think a new thread should be opened to discuss the claim of the sovereignty of the islands between China, Taiwan, and Japan. It’s too murky and complicate. You accidentally opened a can of worm. It’s hard to claim that Taiwan belonged to the Qing Dynasty. The Qing Dynasty was too busy to handle the internal conflicts and the wars with England and other wester countries. Even Puyi, the last king of the Qing Dynasty served the Japanese. </p>
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<p>Before the Qing government lost the first Sino-Japanese war of 1894-95, the island of Taiwan was recognized internationally as belonging to the Chinese empire. Thus, those two sentences were irrelevant under the prevailing international conventions of that time. </p>
<p>The Qing government was forced by military defeat and a treaty derived from it to cede the island of Taiwan to the Japanese empire in 1895. </p>
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<p>He started serving the Japanese in the early 1930s, around 2 decades after the Qing Dynasty ended by revolution and an abdication which was carried out on his behalf by the Dowanger Empress Longyu because he was still a child. </p>
<p>It’s a non-sequitur as this has no relation to the Qing Dynasty’s or its successor government in 1945, the ROC under Chiang’s sovereign claim over the island of Taiwan. </p>
<p>Puyi wasn’t even born when that war and the seizure of the island of Taiwan took place. </p>
<p>There was nothing before 1895 indicating that Taiwan was internationally recognized as territory of the Chinese empire (the Qing Dynasty).</p>
<p>Huh? Does all this mean the Aboriginal Taiwanese who moved to South America may have been involved in the Kennedy assassination?</p>
<p>"Huh? Does all this mean the Aboriginal Taiwanese who moved to South America may have been involved in the Kennedy assassination? "</p>
<p>No, I think they are implying that it was one of the original occupiers of Taiwan, the Borg, that was involved in the Kennedy assassination.</p>
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<p>The Treaty of Shimonoseki, signed in 1895, ceded Taiwan to Japan in perpetuity. Not temporarily, forever. </p>
<p>Articles 2 & 3: China cedes to Japan in perpetuity and full sovereignty of the Penghu group, Taiwan and the eastern portion of the bay of Liaodong Peninsula together with all fortifications, arsenals and public property.</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Treaty_of_Shimonoseki.html”>https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Treaty_of_Shimonoseki.html</a></p>
<p>The Cairo agreement gave Taiwan “back” to China after WW2 but without any consultation with Taiwan, and in any event, “back” to a country that had occupied it for only 8 years, ever - from 1887-1895.</p>
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<p>Possibly it was due only to the actions of the ROC when they occupied. The Taiwanese were by and large happy to see the Japanese go and hoped for better form the Chinese, but what they got was worse. 228, the White Terror and corruption and exploitation on a massive scale.</p>
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<p>You’re right. I saw the mention of Mao occupying Taiwan and felt the need to comment. It’s an issue of importance to me.</p>
<p>A sweet human interest story for Christmas:</p>
<p>While secret negotiations were taking place, the US wanted to get Cuba to treat their prisoner, American Alan Gross, better. In a humanitarian vein, they helped imprisoned Cuban spy Gerardo Hernandez and his wife become parents via artificial insemination. This week Hernandez returned home to his wife, who is now eight months pregnant with their child. </p>
<p><a href=“Opinion | How a Cuban Spy and His Wife Came to Be Expectant Parents - The New York Times”>Opinion | How a Cuban Spy and His Wife Came to Be Expectant Parents - The New York Times;
<p>I saw the polling of Cuban Americans about this shows over 50% are now in favor of relations with Cuba and something like 80% want unrestricted travel to Cuba.</p>
<p>It seems several CCers here, cobrat, coolwesther, OHMomof2, know more about Taiwan’s history than most other CCers. It is a strange history – if we added another “drama” (with a controversy title “united of china”) as posted in the following link:</p>
<p><a href=“Nate's Nonsense: United States of China?”>Nate's Nonsense: United States of China?;
<p>Her last statement is funny: Let’s annex Taiwan. It would help solve our debt problem.</p>
<p>I think Taiwan’s former president, Chen Shui-bian, who was the leader of DPP for quite a long time, and was arguably the first truly democratically elected president in Taiwan, is still in prison as of today.</p>
<p>Close to an area that I happen to be familiar with: iPhone 6 is manufactured by FoxConn, a company owned by Taiwan’s businessman. About a half of its key components, its central processors, are made by TSMC, a company headquartered in Taiwan (the other half is made by Apple’s rival company, Samsung in a semiconductor plant in Austin Texas. (Prior to iPhone 6, all Apple’s central processors were made by Samsung - and Samsung’s technology was based on IBM’s.) TSMC’s founder Morris Chang (who had never been in Taiwan before he was recruited to start this company) was educated by Harvard, MIT and Stanford and he was “trained” by a US semiconductor company (esp. TI). US’s 7th Fleet protected Taiwan for quite a many decades after Korea War.</p>
<p>Perhaps you could start a thread on it, mcat. As you may have noticed, discussion about Taiwan pretty much stopped the conversation about Cuba here.</p>
<p>Back to the Cuba discussion. An actor friend is directing a production of the Broadway musical Rent in Havana and it opens tonight! Fans of Rent will know the significance of that! It has taken about a year to organize, get the permissions required, cast the show, etc. I’ve seen a few videos of some of the sing-through and oh my goodness, it will be wonderful. This is the first large scale musical produced in Cuba in 50 years. Baby steps but steps, nonetheless. </p>
<p>One issue which has come up with the Cuba normalization news is the question of US fugitives who have sought refuge there as shown here:</p>
<p><a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/cuba-signals-extradition-us-fugitives-off-table-050054806.html”>http://news.yahoo.com/cuba-signals-extradition-us-fugitives-off-table-050054806.html</a></p>
<p>This issue has been a hot topic among FB friends who were asking about how soon could they be extradited.</p>
<p>I was one of a few who had to explain that it’s unlikely to happen anytime soon not only due to politics, but also the fact we don’t have an extradition treaty and getting such treaties can be hard even among allies.</p>
<p>For instance, we don’t have extradition treaties with Kuwait or the ROC(Taiwan)* and several others in Europe are very conditional in practice*.</p>
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<li>This came up in the case of Cecilia Chang, a former Dean at St. John’s university who was found to have embezzled university funds for personal uses and used scholarships as a means to compel students to perform free manual labor services for her household. When she was arrested, she was found to have squirreled funds in preparation to flee to the ROC(Taiwan). If she had succeeded before being apprehended, the US would have had little recourse to get her back as there’s no extradition treaty currently though negotiations to have one are currently ongoing.<br></li>
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<p>** I.e. Several Western European countries won’t allow extradition of suspects unless the death penalty is off the table. </p>
<p>Making this change in relations with Cuba is simply realpolitik. It’s in the broad interests of the U.S. to do it. Interestingly, it’s mostly being opposed by people who typically focus on U.S. interests.</p>
<p>This is a perfect case for “be careful what you wish for”. Extradition laws have to work both ways. If the U.S. has an extradition agreement with Cuba and we ask for the return of fugitives (like that woman who murdered the police), people should remember that Cuba then gets to ask for the return of anyone who took up arms against the government there. Extradition isn’t a one way street. You don’t get to pick and choose who is subject to it. </p>
<p>That is cool, alwaysamom, I hope the production is very successful!</p>
<p>As far as extradition, I don’t think it’s so clearcut. Just because you have a treaty doesn’t mean you must send everyone back, though it could damage relations. Seeing as Cuba promised years ago to release all political prisoners, theoretically they shouldn’t be asking for anyone back. Then again, I don’t think they’ve released these people either.</p>
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<p>In practice, it can happen depending on politics and an individual nation’s laws. For instance, many Western European countries won’t extradite suspects to countries, including the US unless the death penalty is taken off the table. </p>
<p>Also, some countries have a policy of not allowing its own citizens to be extradited for crimes committed in other countries. For instance, Roman Polanski hasn’t been successfully extradited from France because he’s a French citizen and France has a policy against extraditing its own citizens. </p>
<p>Good point, Hayden. Militant anti-Castro Cubans used to operate from the U.S. without much attention from our government. For example, an ex-Cuban army officer who became a terrorist bomber lived in Miami for a time with no interference from the U.S. The Cuban government for years complained that he was responsible for blowing up a Cuban airliner in South America, killing many innocent people. The U.S. government essentially ignored Cuba’s demands for his extradition for years…until 9/11. I don’t believe we ever sent him back but he saw the handwriting on the wall and hightailed it to a third country, as I recall.</p>
<p>Re: Cuba, it seems Florida is giving this development a big “so what” at worst and a “thank goodness, finally” at best. What a change. </p>
<p>@mcat2 - will talk Taiwan anytime if anyone cares to start a thread. And yes, Chen Shui Ban is still in prison and will likely die there and that is definitely a political imprisonment.</p>