USNWR does not directly consider acceptance rate. They do have a small 5% weighting on test scores, which is well correlated with acceptance rate.
WSJ doesn’t directly consider acceptance rate or selectivity. The closest metric in WSJ I see is graduation rate (correlated with selectivity).
I think USNWR criteria as a whole has far more to do with endowment than it does acceptance rate.
Seems like not that long ago people were complaining about all the cuts to higher education in Florida. What turned that around? The new governor?
“This is the first time UCLA outpaced UCB in cross-admits. I believe that UCB tried to fight this from becoming a trend for 2020 admits. UCLA has to beware of admit tricks of UCB and not broadcast whom it SIRS.”
First off I don’t think UCs think in terms of admit tricks, they all want to increase their yields of course, but not to the point of being deceptive. UCB is hurt by their competitive, if not cut-throat reputation, whereas UCLA is known for a better quality of life. Anecdotally in the bay are, UCB loses cross admits to Stanford, Cal Tech, MIT on the stem side, some ivies, Chicago, Northwestern on the non-stem side.
CA’s state university system of UCs, CSUs, community colleges for undergrad and grad is the best, imo of course. It doesn’t mean they’re not flaws, second probably is NY with- SUNY, CCNY, and their community colleges.
The UCs publish a list of the colleges they lose the most cross admits to. As summarized below, Berkeley and UCLA lose by far the most cross admits to each other. Nobody else comes close. The only others significantly above 1% were Stanford and USC. Stanford and USC were at about 3% at both schools, Yale and Penn rounded out the top 5 and both schools.
Berkeley
Lost 1670 to UCLA (12%)
Lost 415 to Stanford (3%)
Lost 394 to USC (3%)
Lost 196 to Yale (1%)
Lost 190 to Penn (1%)
Lost 188 to UC Davis (1%)
Lost 178 to UCSD (1%)
UCLA
Lost 1527 to Berkeley (11%)
Lost 431 to USC (3%)
Lost 407 to Stanford (3%)
Lost 192 to Yale (1%)
Lost 184 to Penn (1%)
Lost 183 to Harvard (1%)
@mass684
Curious to know how many points separate the schools ranked number 6 from those ranked number 9?
@theloniusmonk . . . UCB trails everything UCLA does, and they wait a long time to send out wait-list offers of admittance. I guess we’ll just have to see later in the year if UCB turned around the cross-admit percentages.
I added the unknown/missing grades, and these are International students whose grades don’t convert into a UCGPA format. This brings the total for both to near 100%.
Campus… ≥ 4.20…3.80-4.19…3.40-3.79…Unk/Missing
UCB………54.8%…36.1%…2.7%…5.3%
UCLA…64.4%…26.3%…3.6%…4.9%
I’ll add another matrix below the following:
SAT Per CDS, 2019:
…% of 1,400-1,600…~ Median…25th…75th
UCB…64%…1,420…1,330…1,520
UCLA…57%…1,410…1,290…1,510
Here are the Component SAT Scores:
SAT Per CDS, 2019, Component Scores:
…UCB…UCLA
Math, 25th…670…640
EBRW, 25th…640…640
Combined Comp…1,310…1,280
Indiv. Scores, 25th…1,330…1,290
Plus Scores to Ind, “A”…+20…+10
Math, 75th…790…790
EBRW, 75th…740…740
Combined Comp…1,530…1,530
Indiv. Scores, 75h…1,520…1,510
Plus Scores to Ind, “B”…-10…-20
Sum A+B…+10…-10
When individual scores are reported by component, the 75th combined scores often drop by as much as 20 points compared to individual scores and the 25th often increase by 20 points, which is a result of Math component scores being higher than EBRW for most students. I’d put it in words, but it’d take a longer description, and it’s fairly universal among all colleges.
Residency - Applications, Percentages
…UCB…UCLA
CA…50,148, 57.4%…69,613, 62.5%
OOS…20,215, 23.1%…23,056, 20.7%
Int’l…17,035, 19.5%…18,652, 16.8%
Total…87,398…111,321
UCLA’s applications dropped by about 3,000 for 2020, and UCB’s increased.
That was easy enough for me to look up. Here’s the Overall Score for the Top 20 for anyone interested
I should have added in my post #145, that with respect to apps, UCB is still thought of as significantly harder to gain admission, so numerous students are reluctant to check their box.
State funding for state universities tend to be related to how much money there is in state budgets. State universities typically face large budget cuts during recessions when the state collects less tax revenue but where spending relating to unemployed or poor people increases due to more unemployed or poor people. But during growing economic times (up until COVID-19) there is often plenty of state government money, some of which may be used to increase funding for state universities.
If you look at https://www.chronicle.com/article/tuition-and-fees-1998-99-through-2018-19/ for historical tuition levels, you will see that state universities often had their largest increases during recessions. For example, University of Florida has +15% or so tuition increases in 2008, 2009, and 2010, but minimal tuition increases since then (adjusted for inflation, tuition has mostly been dropping since 2010).
@arcadia: 2 points separate the 6th ranked colleges (Bowdoin, CMC and USNA, at 93) from the 9th ranked colleges (Carleton, Hamilton, Middlebury and W&L, at 91).
thanks @merc81
I don’t think a 2-point difference represents the beginning of the end for Middlebury.
“Lost 415 to Stanford (3%)
Lost 394 to USC (3%)”
That’s been consistent with the info I know, anecdotal as it is. I totally forgot about USC The Stanford number is interesting since it’s about 20% of Stanford’ class.
The cross admit data needs the other half of the equation to provide better context. Losing 100 out of 100 admitted to both schools to XYZ school is very different than losing 100 out 300 admitted to both.
I don’t find the Stanford numbers surprising. In most years 35-40% of Stanford students are CA residents. A large portion of highly academically qualified CA residents apply to the UC system. The UC’s shared application and near guaranteed admission for high rank students makes the UC system a good choice for a backup or safety. Students can check of the box to apply to Berkeley and UCLA at the same time they apply to less selective UCs. There is also a lesser degree of overlap among out of state residents. For example, CS is Stanford’s most popular major by far. Many top CS students prefer to attend a top ranked CS school in the SV area, which can make Berkeley a good alternative for Stanford.
The kids who apply to both Stanford and Berkeley are a filtered subgroup who are extremely likely to prefer Stanford over Berkeley, if admitted to both. There are also plenty of kids who prefer Berkeley to Stanford, and this group generally doesn’t apply to the more selective Stanford as a backup or safety in case Berkeley rejects them, so they don’t show up in the cross admit subgroup. They have different backups/safeties, which are often within the CA public system. The group that favors Berkeley over Stanford increases Berkeley’s application numbers (~90k applicants last year), without having much influence on cross admit rate.
Looks like Amherst’s score improved so it’s closer to Williams than in prior years.
I agree. We live in NYC, our kids go to public schools, we are government employees. We are not “super rich” and no way could we afford Harvard or Amherst.
I’d expect government employees without especially large incomes or assets to be exactly the group for which Harvard (and similar) are among the least expensive options, without scholarships. How are you determining that there is no way you could afford Harvard?
Harvard’s website states that most Harvard students receive FA, and among this majority receiving FA, the average parental cost is $12k. This is consistent with their NPC, which outputs the following cost to parents, assuming 1 kid in college and “typical” (not high) assets.
Harvard NPC
<=$65k Income – $0k cost to parents
$75k Income – $2k cost to parents
$100k Income – $5k cost to parents
$125k Income – $10k cost to parents
$150k Income – $15k cost to parents
The CUNY NPC is offline, so I’ll compare to SUNY instead, assuming in state and living on campus. The NPC suggests SUNY is typically far more expensive at all of the listed income levels, up to $150k (with listed assumptions). Their NPCs suggests Harvard families making $130k pay less than SUNY families with an EFC of $0 (with listed assumptions).
SUNY NPC
$65k Income – $23k cost to parents
$75k Income – $24k cost to parents
$100k Income – $24k cost to parents
$125k Income – $24k cost to parents
$150k Income – $24k cost to parents
Also, go to the financial aid websites for schools like Harvard, Amherst and Williams, they have a financial aid calculator which quickly estimates your average aid package. All of these schools are need blind and should be workable.
And here is the T20 list of the QS USA Rankings 2020 for comparison purpose:
https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/usa-rankings/2020
And the ranking methodology:
LEARNING EXPERIENCE (22%):
-Average instructional expenditure per FTE student (10%)
-Retention rate (5%)
-Pell grant student graduation rates compared with other students (3.5%)
-Student-faculty ratio (3.5%)
DIVERSITY & INTERNATIONALISATION (25%):
-Gender pay gap (2.5%)
-Faculty gender diversity (2.5%)
-Ratio of undergraduate students receiving Pell grants (5%)
` -Students’ ethnicity mix (5%)
-Number of Fulbright recipients per institution (5%)
-Proportion of international students (5%)
EMPLOYABILITY (27%):
-Employer reputation (10%)
-Alumni outcomes (10%)
-Salary after 10 years (7%)
RESEARCH (26%):
- Academic reputation (12.5%)
- Citations per paper (7%)
- International Research Network (IRN) (3.5%)
- Partnerships with Employers per Faculty (3%)