UC Berkeley - Class of 2022 Applicants Thread

Colleges & Universities University of California - Berkeley
2821

@ElenaParent I’m going to guess that some of those AP units and some of the CC units will eventually not be useable. Most L&S majors will need a bare minimum of 50 units, more likely 60 units. Breadth requirements, R&C and AC will take up another 30-35 units. AP won’t cover your breadth and AC classes. If you got a 5 in AP Lit it would cover all of R&C. You’re not allowed to go much over 120 units (AP units are excluded from this calculation). Maybe 130 units max before you need to start “uncrediting” units? (Not sure what the technical term is.)

My kid and I went through an iteration of a 4-year planner (we used the spreadsheet template that the CS department has). Now my kid has 41 CC units and I think will be granted 36 units via AP. Even with that, it’s still going to take a minimum of 3 years to graduate under a normal 16 unit a semester load with a reasonable amount of spreading out of upper division classes. What will complicate things and make things go longer is the exploration part. Part of the reason why L&S CS is better than EECS for my kid is that he has a bit more flexibility in terms of electives, and being potentially being able to double major or minor in something else nontechnical perhaps. And he’ll definitely use some of his electives to take intro courses in other areas. He’s already going to do this this semester with Intro to Data Science. So each one of those electives “takes up” units that the AP units were supposed to do. In some cases, a free elective does kill two birds with one stone, by fulfilling a breadth. For example, Intro to Cognitive Science would be needed if he wanted to minor or double major in Cognitive Science, but it also fulfills a Social Sciences breadth.

2822

@ProfessorPlum168 Interesting to hear from another parent who is navigating through this maze…

Why do you think “some of the units will not be countable”? I wonder if we made a mistake…

My son has “University of California Requirements” covered by his AP and SAT scores.
“American Cultures” is course #1 he has to take.
“Reading and Composition” he needs just one half; another half is coming from CC credit. So this is course #2 he has to take.
“Quantitative reasoning” and “Foreign Language” are satisfied by SAT and AP.
Now 7-breadth:
The course #2 mentioned above (from “Reading and Composition”) will cover “Historical Studies” (there is a course that covers both requirements), so no extra course here.
Separate six courses (#3, #4, #5, #6, #7 and #8) will cover the other six requirements, but two of them are needed for his major (math); the courses that overlap 7-breadth and his major are MATH 135 (“Philosophy and Values”) and MATH C103 (“Social and Behavioral Sciences”). So far we have eight courses he needs to take.
For his major, he needs 5 lower division courses, out of which the first two are accounted for by AP, the next two (MATH 53 and 54) are already counted by math department though equivalency credit (from his CC and his non-degree studies at another university). So he has to take only one more lower division required course (MATH 55), I count it as course #9.
Then there are 4 required upper division math courses, I count them as courses #10, #11, #12 and #13.
Then there are two semi-electives, one of which is already accounted for in the 7-breadth (MATH 135). The other semi-elective is one more course for him to take, #14.
Then there should be two electives, upper division. One of them is already accounted for in 7-breadth (MATH C103), and for another one he has a choice of any of the several upper division math courses he took at another University during his non-degree studies.
That will do it for all classes requirements: 7-breadth, major, Berkeley, and UC. The units requirements are covered by the 75 units from AP and CC and University, plus 14 Berkeley courses. The Upper Division units are covered as well, since most of the courses he is taking are upper division, including 7-breadth. All other things, like “at least 6 units of Upper Division outside of your department” are also covered.

If you see a mistake here, please let me know, we will have to rethink the plan if the mistake is there.

2823

@ElenaParent there’s a minimum amount of units that your kid would need to take at Berkeley, and also some of the upper level classes may need prerequisites or only offered at certain times that makes things uncertain. I’m not sure how articulation works wrt upper division classes.

I know that most CC transfer students are hard pressed to finish in 2 years and that’s with all breadths and most if not all lower division classes taken care of. So without delving much in your major I can’t prove or disprove what you have mentioned…

2824

@ProfessorPlum168 Thank you for your thoughts!

I think you are mistaken saying that the 50-60 units that the L&S students have to graduate have to be all taken at Berkeley. You probably just added the required courses for a major, and for MATH major this is 5 lower and 8 upper division courses, and my son already has credit for 4 lower division and 2 upper division (and many other upper division to spare). Also, there can be overlap between 7-breadth and major requirements, and we are taking full advantage of these. Keep it in mind, your son may be able to use these too!

The minimum number of units, to be actually taken at Berkeley, are coming from “Residence Requirement”, and it says “After you become a senior (with 90 semester units earned toward your B.A. degree), you must complete at least 24 of the remaining 30 units on the Berkeley campus, as an L&S student in at least two semesters. (…) Transfer units are excluded.” That will be fulfilled by my son’s next year (actually, he will start fulfilling it next spring, because he should have his 75 units he starts with, and 17 units form the Fall-18 semester).

Another residency requirement is “As an L&S student, you must complete a minimum of 18 units of upper division courses, 12 of which must be eligible to satisfy a requirement for your major.” All these are satisfied by my son’s 7 upper division math courses that he will take (27 or 28 units).

The L&S requirement sounds like this: “Of the 120 total:
60 units in L&S courses. This includes courses offered by L&S and courses offered outside L&S that are approved for Seven-Course Breadth or major requirements.” This requirement does NOT say that all the 60 units should be earned at Berkeley. For my son, out of 54 to 57 units he plans to take at Berkeley, only 4 will not be counted as L&S units. The number of L&S units he brings with his CC and University transcripts, is 22. Thus, he is more than covered for the needed 60 L&S units.

So, rechecking everything again, I do not see any flaws in our scheme. The thing is, he is not a CC transfer. He is a freshman admit, after 11th grade in HS. And he has many 4-year University courses taken already (concurrently with his HS studies, he was at that University for 50% of the time, and 50% in HS). He was doing his CC courses before he got to HS… That helps with having many requirements for his major outta the way…

2825

Am I correct that an AP in English Lit can satisfy all the R & C? I didn’t know you needed a CC course.

2826

@MomLA2018
There are separate “University of California requirements” and “College (L&S) Requirements” (are we talking Letters and Science?). https://ls.berkeley.edu/advising/degree-requirements

For “University of California requirements” (“Entry level Writing” and “American History and American Institutions”) you can use SAT, AP, and high school stuff.

For L&S requirements, you have “Essential Skills” and “Seven Breadth” requirements. “Essential Skills” have three things inside: “Reading and Composition”, “Quantitative Reasoning” and “Foreign Language”.

“Reading and Composition” can be satisfied in several ways: https://ls.berkeley.edu/reading-composition-requirement
As you see from this link the score of 5 for AP Lit indeed satisfies both A&B parts of the R&C requirement. The score of 4 will get you out of only part A. For those kids who did not take AP Lit for whatever reason, and do not have any other boxes to check in the first table from the link above, - they have to satisfy R&C in some other way. One of these ways is CC credit for a specific course (sometimes taken during specific year), and/or a Berkeley course from the approved list of courses (http://guide.berkeley.edu/undergraduate/colleges-schools/letters-science/reading-composition-requirement/#RC).

2827

ProfessorPlum - Did you ever receive a response to your AP Credit/Registration question posed in #2819 above?

2828

Maybe somebody already asked this in this thread, but I was wondering if anyone knows when we find out which room we are in and who our roommate(s) is/are? I want to rent the mini fridge with the microwave since they can only guarantee it will be delivered by move in day if we order my August 1st, but it would suck if we ordered it and then show up and my roommate also ordered it. Any tips or suggestions?

2829

@haybro I would just wait until the dorm assignments come out. Should be this week.

@LeftyRighty16 I’m not sure which question you are referring to…

2830

This one:

“He’s eligible to skip both classes [Math 1A/1B] since he got a 5 on AP Calc BC. I wonder if the registration system is stringent on prerequisites, or if it lets you choose any class you want?”

I’m in a similar boat. I’m eligible to skip Math 1A/1B due to a recent AP score but the scores were just recently submitted and are unlikely to be reflected in the Cal system prior to registration. I may take either Math 16A or Math 1B (if I elect not to waive them) or even Math 53 (still deciding) but all 3 have a prerequisite. How will the system know that I am eligible to waive out of the Prerequisites?

Efforts to contact an advisor have gone unanswered. Frustrating.

Thanks.

2831

@LeftyRighty16 I am a bit anxious as well. My son is eligible to skip everything including MATH 53 and 54, and go for 55 and upper division. So, to relieve my anxiety (only mine - he is not anxious at all!), I contacted MATH department directly. They told me - simply enroll into the next MATH class you have to take. In the case of my son it is MATH 55. In your case it may be MATH 54. I suggest you call the Undergraduate Adviser at Math department. There are two of them, you can find their contact info on the web page of math department. They will tell you straight. They are very friendly and knowledgeable. And they do answer the phone )which may not be necessarily true for general advisers responsible for a wide audience in L&S).

Regardless, it is my understanding that the prerequisites are not enforced at the time of registration, not automatically at least. I do not have any proof of that, just several observations. (1) I did not hear anywhere in the Golden Bear Advisement videos a warning that the System will not allow you to register for a course, if you do not have prerequisites formally listed in your CalCentral, only suggestions not to register for advanced courses. (2) The Golden Bear Adviser (L&S) my son had never mentioned that he may not be able to register for his two Upper Division courses that he is aiming at, due to lack of prerequisites. (3) Undergraduate Adviser in MATH department said that the only “hold” the incoming students might have is if they did not go through Golden Bear Advisement. (4) The same Math Department Adviser told my son - “just go ahead and register”, without saying “I cleared the permission for you” or anything of the sort. (5) My son got another advice from a LATIN professor. He is aiming at a LATIN course with prerequisites which he formally doesn’t have, but he has a lot of other experience in Latin instead. It is clear that the “System” (CalCentral) doesn’t know, and cannot know, of my son’s other credentials in Latin. However, the professor (my son wrote him an e-mail asking for permission to enroll) said, “just enroll, I am looking forward to working with you”, again without saying that he will clear the prerequisite hold or anything like that.

I guess it is assumed that people “just enroll,” and then if the course is not what they “signed up for” - they either drop it themselves, or the professor drops them. In fact, if it is indeed like this, - then the system would make a lot of sense to me. We will see whether I am right day after tomorrow, when my son actually clicks “enroll” button…

2832

@LeftyRighty16 ah that question! My kid’s CS advisor simply told him to register for EE16A (the next class after Math 1B), didn’t need any special dispensation. She did advise to go over the tests for Marh 1B and see if he could get 75% of the questions right.

2833

@MomLA2018 a 5 in AP Lit will satisfy both R&C courses for L&S students. I think for CoE students, they still need to take the B (second) course.

2834

Here’s a copy of the email discussion answer my kid had with his CS advisor:

2835

so here is the breakdown for Computer Science, L&S for my kid:
classes in bold are classes that he needs/plans to take at Berkeley.
He has 80+ credits from AP and CC coming in. Subtract 14 CC units that are used as direct transfer credits and 16 units from AP for direct transfer units (AP Engl Lit, AP Calc BC), so around 50 units for general credit usage.
18 classes needed for CS = ~72 units. 120-72=48, so hopefully the 50 will cover these 48.

CS major, L&S:

Essential Skills and University requirements
Entry Level Writing - fulfilled many ways, i.e. > 30 on ACT English Language Arts
Reading and Comprehension A - Covered by 5 in AP English Literature
Reading and Comprehension B - Covered by 5 in AP English Literature
Quantitative Reasoning - fulfilled many different ways, i.e. > 28 on ACT
Foreign Language - 3 years of dual-enrollment in Chinese
American History - took AP US History
American Cultures - took American Cultures class at CC

Seven Course Breadth
Arts and Literature - covered by American Cultures class from CC
Biological Sciences - covered by Nutrition class in CC
Historical Studies - to be taken
International Studies - ** to be taken**
Philosophy and Values - **CLASSICS 10A - Intro to Greek Civilization **
Physical Science - will be covered by CS 61C - Machine Structures, required class
Social and Behavioral Sciences - ** to be taken **

**Lower Division Courses **
**CS 61A - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs **
CS 61B - fulfilled by CC courses (Data Structures, C++)
**CS 61C - Machine Structures **
**CS 70 - Discrete Mathematics and Probability Theory **
Math 1A - fulfilled by 5 on AP Calc BC test
Math 1B - fulfilled by 5 on AP Calc BC test
EE 16A - Designing Information Devices and Systems I
EE 16B - Designing Information Devices and Systems II

**Upper Division Classes (36 units minimum needed) **
** Upper Division CS Design Course **
** Upper Division CS Course I **
** Upper Division CS Course II **
** Upper Division CS or EECS Course I **
** Upper Division CS or EECS Course II **
** Upper Division CS or approved technical elective I **
** Upper Division CS or approved technical elective II **
** Upper Division elective I **
** Upper Division elective II **

so 4 breadths, 5 lower division and 9 upper division minimum for CS degree. Hopefully I didn’t miss anything. 60 unit minimum for classes to be taken at Berkeley if I am not mistaken.

**Data Science **
Lower Division incremental classes:
**CS C8 - Intro to Data Science **
all other classes are covered by CS requirements.

** Upper Division classes - 5-7 classes needed: **
**DS 100 - Principles and Techniques of Data Science **
Computational & Inferential Depth - 2 classes needed. Both can be covered by upper division CS classes taken prior. UCB allows for 2 classes that can be dual-covered
**Probability - 1 class needed **
**Modeling, Learning and Decision-Making - 1 class needed **
**Human Contexts and Ethics - 1 class needed **
**Domain Emphasis - Class 1, if lucky, covered by a Social Science breadth **
**Domain Emphasis - Class 2, if really really lucky, covered by another breadth **
**Domain Emphasis - Class 3 **

so 1 incremental lower division classes, 5-7 additional upper division classes

2836

@ProfessorPlum168 Where do you get “60 unit minimum for classes to be taken at Berkeley if I am not mistaken” from? https://ls.berkeley.edu/advising/degree-requirements
I see 60 units for L&S courses, but it doesn’t say anywhere it has to be all Berkeley, it can be transferred as far as I see.
It has 36 upper division units, yes, but again it doesn’t say all of it has to be at Berkeley. There are two residence requirements, looks like that:

  1. “After you become a senior (with 90 semester units earned toward your B.A. degree), you must complete at least 24 of the remaining 30 units on the Berkeley campus, as an L&S student in at least two semesters.”
  2. “As an L&S student, you must complete a minimum of 18 units of upper division courses,* 12 of which must be eligible to satisfy a requirement for your major.”
    All of this amount to no requirement of 60 units at Berkeley, just 30, with further restrictions what these units have to be.

I have a skin in the game: my son incoming freshman, by my latest accounting needs only 13 courses to graduate (yesterday I thought it is 14, but I found another overlap in breadth/american cultures). He will probably take two graduate courses to cap it off and get a degree with Honors, or take MATH 198 and do a thesis, but even with all that it should be doable in two years. The main bottleneck is getting the right classes at the right time, it is tricky, with needed classes having restricted enrollment.

2837

@ElenaParent My mistake it should have been worded as 60 units in L&S courses. For CS, there of course is the necessity to take EE courses which is not in L&S so that does come into play.

2838

@ProfessorPlum168 Yes, I understand - because of EE and CS (different major!, and double major!) there are more requirements applied to your son, so it is harder for him. Good luck to him! May be our kids will overlap at a class sometime?