I think it’s really conditional on the availability of an effective vaccine. And face masks now essential part of our daily life.
Not all STEM majors did that well in pay levels. For example:
$37,320 Microbial biology
$41,097 Molecular environmental biology
$42,818 Integrative biology
$44,835 Environmental sciences
$49,229 Molecular and cell biology
$111,368 (EECS) or $107,302 (L&S CS) is higher than the median household income of most bay area cities (e.g. $104,552 in San Francisco, $104,324 in San Jose, $68,442 in Oakland*).
So it is hard to believe that a new UCB EECS or L&S CS graduate with typical pay level would find that “it’s virtually impossible for them to survive by base salary alone” when so many households in the bay area live on lower pay levels.
@ucbalumnus , re, your #22,
I think these should be looked at with at least a couple completely contrasting groupings of income, with hopes that those who are born in the lowest tier will experience the value of higher education.
And in salary comparisons between various cities, I kind of danced around some of them, so let me present UCB’s EECS and CS salaries (mostly but not all) in the South Bay to other cities/regions:
EECS: $111,168 Salary in Menlo Park ==> $43,123 in Hawthorne (Say, where Space X is located – I guess I could have matched with ME or AE)
Computer Science: $107,302 in Mountain View ==> $38,031 in Palmdale (Northrup Grumman)
Note 1: The commute by car (or by BART – shorter?) from Fremont to Mountain View is only ~ 23 miles, but again, at rush hour it’s easily at least triple the time of free flowing traffic.
Note 2: These are extreme examples of course, just to show the premium salaries the SB tech firms have to dole out.
Note 3: Regarding Facebook going fully to remote-work status vis-à-vis Google’s possibly doing the same, it would be seemingly harder for the latter to go full-mode remote because the company is involved in so many different things including hardware. Apple, correct me if I’m wrong, @ucbalumnus, also could never go fully remote because it is just as well or more hardware driven.
@CalCUStanford, number #14
Perhaps many if not most of them have to go outside of the Bay for employment.
Thanks, @ucbalumnus. Of course, you can even “live” with min wage. You may want to refer a link below for the article: “Scraping by on six figures? Tech workers feel poor in Silicon Valley’s wealth bubble” (Feb. 27, 2017)
Or we can just do a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation with $111,368 as our example for a newly UCB graduate back in 2018:
$111,368
-$17,975 (Federal Income Tax)
-$7,083 (Cal State Income Tax)
-$6,905 (Social Security)
-$1,615 (Medicare Tax)
-$3,600 ($300/m12m/yr for student loan payment)
-$36,000 ($3,000/m12m/yr for “cheap” housing rental expense)
-$3,600 ($300/m12m/yr for car loan)
-$12,000 ($1,000/m12m/yr for food)
-$6,000 ($500/m12m/yr for social, networking or dating expense)
-$3,500 ($300/m12m/yr for clothing expense)
-$2,000 (annual travel expense)
-$3,000 ($250/m12m/yr for entertainment expense)
-$1,200 ($100/m12m/yr for other insurance coverage expense)
-$3,000 ($250/m12m/yr for gas expense)
-$1,200 ($100/m12m/yr for miscellaneous expense)
-$2,400 ($200/m*12m/yr for emergency savings)
==> $290 left…><
Correction: -3,600 for a typo in clothing expense.
Agree with you on your remarks above. Note that these lower-wage STEM majors were seemingly bio/chem (pre-med?) related and I suspected many of these graduates decided not to seek for MD/MS/Ph.D immediately after graduation for various reasons (i.e., low GPAs, low MCAT test scores, $$ and other issues).
Perhaps many of them chose not to enter the petroleum industry in Texas, for example.
By comparing with PayScale’s data of national “Early Career Pay” for EECS, that is the “median salary for alumni with 0-5 years experience”, Cal’s immediate BS graduates with no prior experience, still possess a “premium” value of $23,168 or 26.3% more:
Y2018
Average UCB EECS (BS) graduate base salary: $111,168
vs.
PayScale’s national EECS (BS) early career pay: $88,000
Rephrase: Note that these “lower-wage” STEM mjors …and I suspected SOME (instead of MANY)…
For Post#24: and if you’re thinking about buying a $1.5M (medium value) house in the Valley…with down payment and monthly morgage payment, oh, boy, it could get even worse.
It would be a great help if the person has a significant other or a spouse who makes similar income. Double income can overcome some of the obstacles.
Considering that the new graduate has been living on $21-25k of non-tuition/books money (see https://financialaid.berkeley.edu/cost-attendance ), that does seem like you are assuming that the new graduate will be spending much more than as a student. Perhaps true for housing, but do new graduates in computing really spend that much on “social, networking or dating”, entertainment, clothing (most seem to dress inexpensively; it is not like people buy expensive suits and then have to have them dry cleaned), gasoline (the amount you give suggests driving a very thirsty vehicle or driving a lot more than average), and miscellaneous expenses?
@ucbalumnus : Good points:
Post#31: Most likely the new graduate was still single given the fact that UCB EECS student life was nothing more than studying.
Post#32: From a psychological perspective, it’s the 1st time this person being finanical independence and just wanted to “unleash” his inner monster by rewarding himself with Volvo XC40. Obviously this person needed to adjust himself and get a financial planning traiing from the master,…UCBAlumnus. 
So here’s his adjusted version of spending for Year 2:
111,368
-17,975 (Fed. Income Tax)
-7,083 (Cal State Income Tax)
-6,905 (Social Security)
-1,615 (Medicare Tax)
-3,600 (Student loan payment: same)
-36,000 (housing: same. Driving from SF downtown apartment)
-3,600 (Monthly car loan payment: same. The XC40 priced, based on trim at $30,820 and obviously it’s not a luxury car. With a down payment $9,500 loan from his mom and 5% sales tax and 6% interest rate for 96 months as the loan term, his monthly payment’s $300/m*12m/yr )
-12,000 (food & dinning: same)
-3,000 (50% reduction for previous social, networking and dating expense)
-1,200 (Clothing: $100/m12m/yr)
-2,000 (Travel expense: same)
-600 (Entertainment: Drop to $50/m12m/yr)
-1,200 (Other insurance coverage: same)
-1,800 (Adjust to $150/m for gas expense target)
-600 (Adjust to $50/m for miscellaneous expense)
-12,000 (Raise to $1K/m*12m/yr for emergency/future mortgage down payment saving, roughly 10% of the base income)
==> $190 left. ><
Of course, the $110K above is without the inflow of the yearly bonus, option, etc
And starting from Year 3, this person may need to add a family support item:
-6,000 ($500/m*12m/yr to support a family member, i.e., younger brother’s college tuition and living).
That’s why there are many articles describing why Silicon Valley flee to places in Utah, Texas, etc. A good read, for example, as “Scraping by on six figures? Tech workers feel poor in Silicon Valley’s wealth bubble” (Feb. 27, 2017)
Many of the downtown SF dwellers don’t have cars.
Many new graduates who do have cars have cheaper tastes than your example, or have hand-me-downs from their parents.
@ucbalumnus : True only if the new graduates work and live in SF. Obviously you think like most people do - a good idea to live closer to work, for commute is shorter and to save time and $$ (gas). Ok, let’s make it, say to live in Sunnyville and thus save the gas to about $120/m. (I actually think gas is not that big deal and $120-$150/m is fair enough living in the area.
Anyway, the cost of living in SF Bay Area could be the most expensive place in the U.S. The main reason for picking Volvo XC40 is for its car safety innovation and it’s definitely priceless ==> $300/m is acceptable. 
Many of the people who live in SF but do not work in SF prefer to commute by other than driving (train, or company bus if they work at a place with such a thing). Of course, work-from-home may be more popular in the future after the forced experiment with it going on now.
Yes, the cost of living in the bay area is high. But it does not mean that $100,000 income is “poor”, although it may seem “poor” compared to someone used to making NYC investment banking money.
Your taste in cars seems to be unusual compared to what new college graduates tend to have, if they have cars.
@CalCUStanford . . .
The typical Engineering/CS graduate is a Elon Musk worshipper, so he/she’s going to probably buy a Tesla => >>>$300/month. And $300/month is, what, a 12-year loan? Maybe he/she should switch to leasing and buying later, but that just means a perpetual car-payment expense.
I think a just-graduated student can get by on < $1,000 for food because this implies that he/she are eating out probably 3-4 times/week.
Based off this with a net of $78,000, a grad can afford ~ $550,000 loan. You’re not going to find effectively any housing-purchase in SF or SJ (much less PA, Menlo, MV) at that amount, which is why I brought up the four-housemates scenario. It’d also be tough from Oakland with the commute into the Peninsula. Renting – I feel – should never be an option unless one lives in NYC, where there’s really no other option.
Otherwise, thanks for itemizing the cost. It should be a real eye opener to working in Silicon.
“The XC40 priced, based on trim at $30,820 and obviously it’s not a luxury car. With a down payment $9,500 loan from his mom and 5% sales tax and 6% interest rate for 96 months as the loan term, his monthly payment’s $300/m*12m/yr“
Who takes such terrible deals on car loans when 0%-0.9% on 60-72 month loans is widely advertised? A 96 month loan is just nuts, as is that interest rate. Does UCB not teach any personal finance courses?
Why do you think renting should never be an option (outside of NYC)?
Even for people who do not expect to live in that place for a long time (where buying will subject them to large transaction costs)?
Even during a frothy bubbly real estate market?