UCSF and CSU question.

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>Concur, but the OP did not ask for a response to that issue. </p>

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<p>[Undergraduate</a> Program - Main Page- Health Professions at SFSU](<a href=“http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~brothman/undergradindex.html]Undergraduate”>http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~brothman/undergradindex.html)</p>

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but as a native Californian, I can say that most natives know the “tiers” that exist within the UC and Cal States…[/qjuote]</p>

<p>Also concur.</p>

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However, no Calif med school is going to equate CSULB with CSULA…or CSUFullerton with CSUMBay…[.quote]</p>

<p>Strongly disagree, but my opinion doesn’t matter. Prestigious professional schools – and UCSF is one of the most prestigious – prefer kids from prestigious undergrads. Those Cal State grads are competing for a slot in UCSF, their top public, against the likes of grads from Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Caltech, USC,…and every other top private college (it doesn’t matter if its top 25 or top 50, as long as they are California residents). With all of those high achieving kids from which to choose, why would UCSF make a distinction between Cal States? Besides not being worth their time, it would be not be politically smart – the Regents still fund a portion of the professional schools’s budgets. Even if UCSF admissions believed in their heart of hearts that SFSU was better than say, a mid-tier UC, they cannot show such favoritism. On the contrary, the UCs look to geographic diversity across the state.</p>

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<p>And yeah, they do.</p>

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<p>Yes, but isn’t the #1 feeder to Harvard med Harvard College? (I think I read somewhere that something like a 20 of the class?) Ditto Harvard Law?</p>

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<p>*Note that SFSU even states on their website that pre-health is gonna be a 5-year deal if you go there.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Because Biology and Chemistry major’s courses require extensive studying, most students take about 5 years of full-time course work to complete the baccalaureate.</p>

<p>Ok…but, it’s not a given. It’s sounds like they have a decent number of kids “re-taking” classes.</p>

<p>Another issue…the Calif publics have LONG had a problem with students matriculating without being “ready” for college math and/or college English. So, the remedial work adds to the length of time it takes to graduate.</p>

<p>however, it would seem that if a student is math and English ready, doesn’t need to retake low grades, he can get thru the program in a timely manner.</p>

<p>Prestigious professional schools – and UCSF is one of the most prestigious – prefer kids from prestigious undergrads.</p>

<p>I agree. That’s why I don’t think going to an elite should be the focus.</p>

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<p>Note the bolded key word from the premed advisor at the college:</p>

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<p>One should not automatically assume one would be a the top of the curve wrt to course selection.</p>

<p>Also, check the grad rate data (on IPEDS): only 12% of SFSU grads get out in four-years. According to Cal State data, approx. 50% of all entering Frosh require remediation, (usually English)…subtracting that half, we still find 40% more (those without needing remediation) still unable to graduate in 4.</p>

<p>fwiw: Fullerton has a 16% four year grad rate, The Beach is 13%, San Diego is 28%, Hayward 17%, SLO 24%…</p>

<p>Thus, the short answer to the OP, is ‘yes, one can attend SFSU and matriculate to UCSF Medical, but the odds are really long for that individual.’</p>

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<p>Students mature at different rates and if the OP develops the necessary talent, work ethic and time management skills he/she could go to SFSU and get into UCSF. It is however unlikely even if he/she went to HYPS, and much less likely from SFSU. I should also like to say that there seems to be this thought that undergraduate prestige is quantitative for medical school admission. This was not the case in my past experience and people I know who still do admissions work tell me that this is still correct. There is no differentiation between the CSU’s although there is among the UC’s. I do think that there is still an east coast academic bias but I do think that graduates of UCB and UCLA do very well in graduate school placement and compete well with students from the Ivy’s etc. I can tell you that there is no preference for Stanford grads vs Cal grads at UCSF. Most California residents however like to stay in California so competition for medical school positions in California is difficult. Getting into a top medical school makes it even more difficult and given the large number of excellent applicants, the process develops an element of luck. One can get into Yale or JHU for example and not get into UCSF or UCLA.
California state residency helps admission for all the UC’s except UCLA. UCSF however does tend to take 10-20% out of state students. I do not think UCI or UCD take many out of state students and am not sure about UCSD.
I happen to think UCB is an awful place to be a pre med as it is full of extremely hard driven and competitive students who seem to have very little life outside of getting into medical school. It would not be my choice of a way of getting into medical school but if one wants to go to a top medical school via a cc route it probably as good a way as any if you manage to excel. Coming from a cc it is much easier to get into a UC than into a top private college/university due to the preferences of the UC’s for cc students.
Now getting into any medical school as a California resident is difficult and there is little
advantage to going to a top tier medical school for the vast number of medical students who do not choose a very competitive residency. If I were a HS student who wanted to go into medicine and my choices were SFSU and the cc/transfer route I would go cc.</p>

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<p>Yep, that’s what I’ve been sayin’.</p>

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<p>Not sure anyone has stated ‘quantitative.’ But there is a strong thought that it is qualitative, i.e., a small plus factor; which and this is not new. Back in the dark ages, the Dean of Harvard Med personally conducted interviews on the west coast, at only three schools, Cal & Stanford being two of the three. He left the interviews of the other candidates, “to my staff.”</p>

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<p>There is no differentiation between the CSU’s although there is among the UC’s.</p>

<p>I disagree…just as there is a differentiation among the UCs, there is differentiation among the CSUs…probably even more so since there are so many CSUs. </p>

<p>The problem with going the CC route and transfer is the TAG issue of only doing 2 years at a UC after the transfer. I don’t know if that is enforced or not. If it is a strict issue, that can make it very hard for the CC transfer student to complete upper division for major AND do lower division pre-med req’ts at the UC (since taking them at the CC is frowned upon). </p>

<p>Is there any data that shows the Calif med school admit rate success amongst those who do the TAG route? I’m not sure that the success rate is any higher than those who do the CSU route all 4 years. </p>

<p>I still think the mistake is the focus on going to UCSF… While that can be a “dream,” it should only be looked at like buying a lottery ticket…play the game, but don’t expect it. </p>

<p>California state residency helps admission for all the UC’s except UCLA.</p>

<p>I didn’t know that. Why is that? What is the IS/OOS ratio?</p>

<p>BTW…since competition for admission into Calif schools is so extreme, what “non-elite” OOS med schools should a Calif student also apply to?</p>

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<p>I’m sure there is, but I really don’t think it’s anything that a medical school admissions committee would be aware of.</p>

<p>I grew up in California and I don’t even know how many CSUs there are,* much less which ones are better than others. Now imagine that, instead of a twenty-something Californian who surfs collegeconfidential, you’re asking a semi-elderly medical school professor has been in one of the nation’s top-ten medical schools for his entire life and attends conferences mostly with his colleagues from Harvard and Penn.</p>

<p>I really, really don’t think he’s going to know very much about the system.</p>

<p>(I did a math competition twelve years ago at CSU San Jose. This thread is apparently about CSU San Francisco. CSU Long Beach hosts a high school debate tournament that my alma mater usually wins. And I’ve heard of CSU San Luis Obispo… so four?)</p>

<p>EDIT: This thread also mentions “East Bay,” “Fullerton,” and “San Diego” (is that where Jim Harbaugh used to coach?). And “LA” (Los Angeles) and… “MB”? Monterey Bay? So we’re up to nine.</p>

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<p>“BTW…since competition for admission into Calif schools is so extreme, what “non-elite” OOS med schools should a Calif student also apply to?”</p>

<p>There are three in Philadelphia where I went to medical school; Drexel, Jefferson and Temple. Also there is George Washington University in D.C., Boston University, Medical College of Wisconsin, Creighton University in Omaha to name a few that provide a good but not “elite” medical education and welcome applicants from all over the country. The major problem is that they are all private schools with very high tuition rates. Also, even though they are not elite medical schools they do not accept many applicants with GPAs of less than 3.5 and MCAT scores of less than 30.</p>

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<p>Goodness. There’s apparently twenty-three of them, including one really close to where I grew up.</p>

<p>[California</a> State University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_University]California”>California State University - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>And Jim Harbaugh apparently did not coach at any of them.</p>

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<p>*there is differentiation among the CSUs…probably even more so since there are so many CSUs. </p>

<p>I’m sure there is, but I really don’t think it’s anything that a medical school admissions committee would be aware of.</p>

<p>I grew up in California and I don’t even know how many CSUs there are,* much less which ones are better than others. Now imagine that, instead of a twenty-something Californian who surfs collegeconfidential, you’re asking a semi-elderly medical school professor has been in one of the nation’s top-ten medical schools for his entire life and attends conferences mostly with his colleagues from Harvard and Penn.</p>

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<p>BDM…I said in an earlier post that CALIF med schools (only) would know the differences. I agree that med schools across the country would not probably know the difference between CSUMBay and CSULB.</p>

<p>People who hire, or in this case accept students, in Calif make it their business to know the quality of education at the various Calif schools. (This is actually probably true of all regions). </p>

<p>I have several family members who hire for various high-tech companies in Calif (Boeing, DirecTV, Canon, etc). They CERTAINLY make it their business to know the quality of education at these Calif schools. They KNOW that a person with a technical degree from SLO is going to be better prepared than someone from a low-tier CSU that doesn’t have the profs/labs/equipment/grants to put forth a decent program. </p>

<p>My H hires engineers here in the northern Alabama area - so he hires from Indiana, GA, TN, NC, SC, LA, VA, FL, AL, MI, MS, etc. There is a certain university that he won’t bother interviewing its graduates…why? Because its math programs are crappy and the students can’t do basic calculus. It’s engineering program isn’t too good, either… The past grads that were hired had to be basically tutored/retrained/whatever to get them somewhat able to do the job. Seriously, my H had to offer free tutoring during his lunch time and after hours. </p>

<p>Yes, people who have a “need to know” do make it their business to know the quality of math, science, and engineering programs at various school in their state/regions. Mistakes in hiring (or accepting students) is just too expensive.</p>

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<p>I was intending in that paragraph to refer to UCSF and UCLA, but it would apply across the other UC medical schools, too.</p>

<p>I don’t know much about the companies you’ve referenced, but I simply can’t imagine tiers of CSU’s mattering in medical school admissions. None of them are going to grab a committee member’s attention, and so in all cases folks are going to rely on the MCAT as the great equalizer.</p>

<p>It’s like if you gave me a lineup of NBA players and asked me which one was the biggest. To me, they all look pretty big. Is it really meaningful if San Antonio’s center is 6’10" and Boston’s is 7’0"?</p>

<p>The same idea applies when medical schools are trying to sort among colleges. Is it really meaningful if CSU East Bay has a few extra SAT points compared to CSU Long Beach?</p>

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<p>Look for schools in NY/DC/VA/PA/NJ/FL etc. MI state takes OOS but it crazy expensive</p>

<p>In my n=1 sample don’t bother with the middle of the country unless you have an amazing hook.</p>

<p>TX is worth a shot
AZ & OR take OOS
Other than that head back east and check the state by state info</p>

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<p>Harbaugh used to coach at a Junior University, not junior college. :D</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the replies. Im actually a high school junior. I’ve been researching things like this in the medical field for quite a long time. It seems that if I go to S.F. State, it’ll be pretty difficult to get into UCSF. I do know there are other factors they take into consideration like extra curriculars and stuff like that. I guess I’ll have to get lucky.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>Are you certain that you can’t get into - say UCR? If you could get into UCR, that would be a good choice.</p>

<p>Why not try to go to a private U? </p>

<p>What are your stats? </p>

<p>There are privates in Calif and elsewhere (and OOS publics) that will give you good merit for good stats. </p>

<p>Did you take the PSAT? How did you do? </p>

<p>BTW…take both the ACT and SAT…some do better on one than the other.</p>

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<p>@mom2collegekids‌, If you go to high school in CA as US citizen and undergrad outside CA, can you apply to grad schools in CA and claim instate residency?</p>

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<p>where do your parents live?</p>

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<p>CA parents</p>

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<p>If you are just going to college OOS for school purposes, then you aren’t moving there. You keep your Calif residency. </p>

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<p>Thank you @mom2collegekids</p>