UG Education Stanford Vs Harvard which is worse?

[Alexandre]

<p>Dude, I would love to work for the Michigan External Relations Department…but they won’t have me. They say I am too radical! LOL Seriously though, I am contacting the University as we speak to ask them if I can represent them in the UAE. I look forward to speaking to High School students in Dubai.</p>

[Gutrade]

<p>Guys, I got rejected by Stanford EA so I obviously have no love of that school. My post was not meant to be a praise of Stanford and Harvard, but rather a denunciation of their inability to educate the people who aren’t already smart and don’t even need an eduation. </p>

<p>By the same token, you cannot deny that public universities strive to have the same prestige and reknown as Stanford and Harvard. Of course they do. Just look at the Berkeley forums and see how much they see themselves as being “on par with HYPSM.” They even go so far as to snub their noses at fantastic schools like Columbia, Caltech, Duke, Dartmouth, Cornell, UPenn and other “lower ivies.” There’s no question in my mind that public schools try to compete with the top schools just as much as private schools do. </p>

<p>And in the end, my question is why do we use taxpayer money to fund schools that just try to be like the top private schools anyways?! Why should I pay money to the government just so they can create a public version of a Stanford-wannabe. The private schools already occupy the prestigious-university niche so our taxpayer dollars would be better spent on the educational niche that is completely neglected by the private sectors–community colleges. In my opinion, prestigious universities only help to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. They educate mainly the wealthy class who aced high school and are already smart enough to succeed. In fact, there have been studies where a person who is accepted to Harvard but chooses to go to a less-known school or no school at all earns the same amount of money as a person who graduates from Harvard. Therefore, it is questionable whether these prestigious universities actually educate people or if they just accept smart people who will do well regardless of where they go. </p>

<p>But community colleges offer second chances for high school dropouts and people who NEED an education. They actually improve people more than any prestigious university. That’s where our taxpayer dollars need to be spent.</p>

[BigBrother]

<p>So why can’t we fund community colleges <em>and</em> public universities (so those community college students can actually get a half decent degree for all of their work)? Like I said before, the California community colleges are worthwhile mostly because of the transfer possibilities, I mean, how far is a dinky Associates Degree going to get you? And thus the money that goes to a UC or a similar institution will make the community college a better institution by association. </p>

<p>No doubt, I do agree with your sentiments on prestigious universities mostly making the rich richer and the poor poorer. But that’s not always the case, and it doesn’t always have to be. The Cal and UCLA consist of 36% of students in need of a pell grant (I’d bet most of the kids here won’t even know what that is). That’s above the national average for <em>all</em> universities, and it’s even above the national average for public universities. Surely this can be considered helping the disadvantaged?</p>

[StanfordAlum82]

<p>Community college education is a good deal. Dirt cheap at least.
I found some more.</p>

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<p>I frankly don’t think Harvard has added anything to my education that I wouldn’t have been able to obtain elsewhere, and likely in a more pleasant environment. The professors almost all self-absorbed and uninterested in us (even when they are brilliant.) With all these super-bright fellow students around me, you would think there would be a much more engaging academic environment.</p>

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<p>It is a picture postcard. Static. Lacking in dynamism. Unfeeling. Distant. I have learned much about myself. And I will have “Harvard” next to my name. College should have been so much more. And given Harvard’s resources, it is a darn shame it isn’t. </p>

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<p>I’m disappointed by everything at Harvard. The grading systems here are bull. The classes are huge. You can actually sleep and get a B+ or an A. If you’re looking for an intellectual environment, you won’t find it in the classroom and the classmates are often arrogant. If I had to pick up again an university it would not be Harvard.</p>

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[StanfordAlum82]

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<p>Harvard is perhaps the most over-rated institution of higher learning in America. This is not to imply that Harvard isn’t a good school - on the contrary, Harvard is an excellent school. But its reputation creates an unattainable standard; no school could ever be as good as most people think Harvard is, no matter how well endowed.The most important reason for this is that institutions of higher learning are by their very nature fickle and subjective. Learning cannot be distributed as ‘one size fits all’, but each student has a certain sort of atmosphere in which he or she can learn best. For some it is in large classes, for others a small recitation. For some, it is from personal meetings with professors, for others the pages of a book (or many, many books). There may be numerous Nobel laureates, but many of them are not particularly approachable to the uninitiated. Students may often find themselves in large lectures with small recitations taught instead by graduate teaching assistants. Furthermore, there’s little choice in this for students - the curriculum includes a large number of courses in a variety of subject areas that lack interest for many students.
Academics at Harvard are not as rigorous as you might expect. It is much more difficult to get in to Harvard than to get out. Most students will finish their degree, since the university places a great emphasis on keeping their graduation percentage very high. It takes some effort on your part to fail a class here - not as much as at Stanford with its “gentleman’s ‘C’” but grade inflation is still rampant.</p>

<p>One myth about Harvard is that the professors are second to none. While it is true that many professors, to quote an oft used maxim in the Harvard admissions material are at the “top of the field”, this raises the question of what does it exactly mean to be at the top of one’s field? However, it sure does not mean professors holding more than two hours of office hours each week for classes that run over one thousand students; professors taking the time to learning the names of students; professors responding to student’s emails and phone calls; and, professors taking the time to develop lasting academic relationships with students in their four years at Harvard.
My nightmare classes have been taught by “big names” professors. These professors often leave for weeks to lecture around the country. They often never respond to emails, voice mails, or other forms of communication. Courtesy, for most of them, is something to be philosephized about on the podium; not practiced in real life.What is my point? Too many of us, myself included, choose schools based on the name, or reputation. How important is receiving faculty attention? Do I need guidance from above, or am I fine learning by myself? I have had too many frustrating and degrading experiences with faculty members to justify attending a school based solely on name alone.</p>

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[kirmum]

<p>Gutrade, what you have to understand is the that a college education isn’t just about the classes. Certainly many school have wonderful classes as do Harvard and Stanford. However, the edcation just starts there. Being with the best and brightest from every corner of the world is qa large part of what makes these schools so special. You don’t have to be in a classroom to grow from this exposure. It’s about trading thoughts and getting to know future leaders in every field who will later be your contacts. Stanfordalum obviously didn’t make the most of his years there, but don’t be fooled, there are good reasons to beat a path to their door. </p>

<p>On a side note, you’re right that ccc transfer guarantees make them a draw. But my son spent two years at a cc that was easier and less interesting than his high school and a waste of time other than that it landed him at the UC he wanted from the start. To make them good places to learn would be hard without building dorms so they would not be commuter and restructuring the whole system. Not about to happen in broke CA.</p>

<p>Good luck getting into a college you enjoy.</p>

[StanfordAlum82]

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<p>You don’t have to be in a classroom to grow from this exposure. It’s about trading thoughts and getting to know future leaders in every field who will later be your contacts.</p>

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<p>So UG is a place to make buddies (i.e.connection, hook whatever.)</p>

<p>Understood.</p>

[StanfordAlum82]

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<p>Most (of course with exceptions) faculty members are here to conduct research. Many tenured faculty snicker at the notion of teaching, especially teaching undergrads. I have first hand experience in the sciences and social sciences and I have heard stories about the humanities. The only way to get to know a professor is if you are a prodigy who is the future of the field. Otherwise, most of your interaction will be with grad students.</p>

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<p>But I see many undergrads who’s Palm Pilots are bursting with meetings, staying up 'til 2am, not for late night dorm discussions, but preparing that business plan for a venture capital firm, and have no real goal in life except to goto the best med school. </p>

<p>Of course, who is really going to turn down an admission to Harvard? But it really takes the 20/20 vision of hindsight to see that life is more than trying to fill out your resume for that “next” step in your career. If you don’t enjoy life when you’re 18-22, when will you? </p>

<p>It takes a brutally honest assessment of yourself to know whether Harvard is right for you. But its better done before than after you goto college, since you’ll never experience that other path you never took.</p>

[kirmum]

<p>Stanfordalum, I certainly had my fun at Harvard as did most of my friends, but I must say, we certainly didn’t have the attitude that we better have fun now because we won’t later. Most of us chose work we love and actually consider fun! We are successful and live well which we also consider fun. We have families that we offer so much and that’s probably the most fun of all. Your outlook is so unusual for a top college peer. Most of us do not see adult life as drudgery, as perhaps the unfortunate do.</p>

[rhizome12]

<p>**** HARVARD! University of Havanna #1 !!! \o</p>

[StanfordAlum82]

<p>I didn’t study at all . but somehow graduated with Phi Beta Keppa (3.87 GPA). Scary, Huh? Easy A’s I guess.</p>

[kirmum]

<p>Stanfordalum, so much you write has made me suspicious that you are who you say. I’ve never known a Phi Beta Kappa to say that they graduated “with” PBK. One just graduates PBK.</p>

[rooster08]

<p>Didn’t Bush get PBK? Doesn’t seem too prestigious to me if they offer membership to 2.0 students.</p>

[foundnemo]

<p>oh noes, alert the authorities! stanfordalum’s credibility has been shot by an unorthodox placement of a preposition. this is huge. </p>

<p>edit: bush sr. was, not bush jr.</p>