UIC chemical engineering requires CHEM 232, 233, 234 (organic chemistry), according to BS in Chemical Engineering < University of Illinois Chicago
IIT chemical engineering requires CHEM 237, 239 (organic chemistry), according to Bachelor of Science in Chemical Engineering < Illinois Institute of Technology
Working harder is never a bad idea in the transition from HS to college!!! He sounds terrific.
Thx
UIC has weird names for some of its classes (a pet peeve of mine). They have 2 tracks of gen chem / o chem. Not sure why but bio / chem majors (most premeds are one of these) can take either track. The O Chem that engineers take is 232 and is called “Structure and Function”. And the flavor of gen chem that they take also has a funny name.
I agree that making sure the foundation is solid is a great idea. He can take his time. He can repeat classes if he needs to. Most engineering majors take more than 8 semesters to graduate, and there is no shame in that whatsoever.
Mine is doing great in his courses, but he came in with 30 AP credits so that gives him breathing room with his course load each term. That’s been a big help. And he works as a supplemental instructor for math which helps him learn it extra well. He might try teaching a different course each term just so he can reinforce the material even better for himself.
UIC chemical engineering needs 128 credits (average 16 per semester), and IIT chemical engineering needs 132-133 credits (average 16.5 per semester). A lower average number of credits per semester can result in needing more than 8 semesters to graduate (this may be relevant for financial planning purposes), unless the student has advanced placement and/or subject credit from high school exams (AP, IB, etc.) or college courses taken while in high school.
@GerryL what math, physics, and chemistry courses will the student complete in high school? If any AP courses, has the student taken exams and gotten scores?
Yes, that’s a good advice. He should go for it and see what happens.
We’ll probably visit both colleges again, and see which one he chooses in the end.
He’s taking AP chemistry now, and took honors physics and regular calculus. Looks like he’ll have to take all required courses in college.
UIC CHEM 115 is general and organic chemistry for pre-nursing students. CHEM 122/123/124/125 is general chemistry for chemistry, chemical engineering, and biology majors (CHEM 116/118 is the honors version). CHEM 232/233/234/235 is organic chemistry for chemistry and chemical engineering majors.
Both UIC and IIT give subject credit for a year of general chemistry for a 4 on AP chemistry. However, if considering taking the advanced placement, the student may want to check the old final exams for the courses allowed to be skipped by AP credit in order to check knowledge of the subject matter by the college’s standards.
Oh, good idea. He definitely should do that.
Others disagree - like ucb - but at Col School of Mines student panel - they said to forgo the AP credit of any vote to the major class. Only take the gen Ed credits.
My kid didn’t listen. Had to WD Calc his first semester.
Do you have the same recommendation for high school students who complete calculus BC in 11th grade and want to take more advanced math at a local college in 12th grade? I.e. would you suggest that they automatically repeat calculus 1 and 2 in that case?
I’m just saying what the students said. It’s not my advice. For my son, who did Calc AB, I wish he’d listened. Of course, he said it was the prof, not him.
OP doesn’t have high levels of rigor - regular calc and AP Chem - so he might want to repeat Chem.
That’s up to them…not me.
I kind of agree about not taking AP credits for a major-related class. Academics aside, those initial major classes tend to set the tone and help build familiarity with expectations, the faculty, and your fellow students.
As far as taking AP or dual credit for Gen Ed (excluding calculus), get as many as you can. For Calc 1 & 2, I think that it depends more on the student and their comfort level than on the institution. My daughter took AP Calc AB and BC as dual credit classes (the dual credit was nice because it excluded her from having to take any math placement tests). Her advisor recommended that she consider at least taking Calc 2 but she stuck to her guns and took the credit. She had no trouble with Calc 3 or differential equations, so it worked for her. However, she does know some students that took the credit and tested out of Calc 1 and 2 but did not have as good of a work ethic had trouble with Calc 3 and diffy q.
My kid debated taking some of his AP credits as a ChemE major. He felt really confident about his AB and BC calc knowledge, as well as his chem knowledge. He did get 5s on those. He was glad he took the credit for them, as he did great in the subsequent courses.
He was less confident about his physics. He got a 4 on his AP physics I (covid remote year) and a 5 on his AP physics C mechanics exam. He wasn’t confident in his electricity & magnetism physics knowledge (his teacher didn’t cover enough) so he didn’t even take that half of the AP physics C exam. He was considering retaking first semester physics in college, but I encouraged him to just take the AP credit since he’d had the material twice and got a 5 most recently. So he went right into 2nd semester physics and did great. No regrets.
If he’d felt less confident in any of those, and/or had gotten lower AP scores, he’d have repeated. And if necessary would have asked the department for exams to self-assess mastery.
Both schools tend to have good results post graduation. Also keep in mind your in a major city with lots of opportunities. I would go for fit here.
Also don’t worry about weed out classes. It’s only a weed out class if you don’t know /understand the material. The material will be hard either way. It’s not high school.
As far as math classes. I have talked to many an engineer and most state to have a great foundation in college regardless what they took in high school. Many different approaches for this.
You really don’t do engineering alone. One of my son’s best quotes from his engineering experience a few years ago is “we all struggle together”.
As I say on another thread. Engineering is hard. Persistence is key.
There will be some courses you just get through and others you might sail through.
Also my best advice is… And some of the best students do these…
Go to office hours. Go to math /science lab groups. Go to peer to peer help sessions. Go to study groups and so on until you don’t need them. But lots of students just continue.
In most engineering fields you work with other’s. Communication is key both verbal and written.
If he wants to be an engineer then do so. Just know it’s not going to be easy. I have heard of some of the best student’s at known top engineering schools struggle. But also at other smaller schools. You either want it and willing to work for it or not.
But… Many find out the first semester or year if this is the correct choice. If he has the backing of his teacher’s that should give you confidence. He also at any school needs to self advocate. If he’s not doing that now… Have him start.
Good luck.
Thank you, I’m going to talk to him about this. Self-advocating and connecting with others is something he needs to work on.
Lots of these kids are introverted in some way. Have him order and pick up take out. Have him do his own laundry. Even on a first year meal plan can he make some food for himself? Can he make pasta? We are talking basic here. It all helps build confidence.
If his math is not where it should be then it’s time to talk to his math teacher. This is the time to get ready for college. No one’s perfect at everything. It will make it easier to talk to a professor next year.
My sons high school had peer to peer help like colleges. Is there someone that can help him?
Does he work? A few hours a week can build self essteem. Bag at a store.
@momofboiler1 any suggestions for a proposed Chem E?
Responding to my “page” ; )
I wanted to start off saying I’m not familiar with either school so I can only give generic advice.
I echo everything @knowstuff said about going to office hours, study sessions, review sessions, help rooms, and getting a good study group of friends from day 1. Use all of those resources as part of the weekly study plan, even if you think you understand it all!
My daughter found that profs and TAs will use similar questions to what will appear on the exams during these sessions which really helps on test day.
Engineering is definitely not a “go it alone” kind of major and asking for help is the norm, not the exception. Getting used to talking to teachers in HS helps that transition.
In general a strong foundation in math, physics, and chemistry (in that order) are necessary to be successful as a chem e. I just spoke to a friend whose child is disappointed that there is so much math and physics and not as much chemistry as they expected. Most of my daughter’s chem e courses were described as a “festival of calculus”. There is no getting away from the math and physics.
I always recommend looking at the four year plan of study at the schools on the short list to make sure it looks like interesting enough.
Lastly, I skimmed some threads up stream about trying to take a lighter course load 12 - 15 semester vs 15 - 18. Even with transferrable AP credits, it can be very difficult to graduate in 4 years without carrying 15 credits/semester because of the ABET requirements. It will also depend on how the school handles their course sequencing.
Lastly, some programs separate out their premeds from their engineering students. For example, my daughter’s o chem sequence was for engineers only. The exam problems were all industry based and students were allowed to use modeling kits. The premed o chem was geared to what would be on the MCAT and no kits were allowed. The potential weed out engineering courses at my D’s school were the calc classes. And I say “potential” because the engineering retention rate was very high at her school.
Agree with everything here.
But I will add an observation- for some kids who are interested in an engineering discipline but have to work harder than some of their HS classmates specifically in math- the problem often isn’t the calculus per se-- it’s the preparation BEFORE. If a kid found algebra or geometry a slog in HS, those weaknesses (or just not having the comfort level solving equations quickly, documenting their work, etc.) are going to show up freshman year of college on an engineering track. It’s like learning a foreign language-- you aren’t reading Voltaire in the original if your French vocabulary or mastery of French grammar is weak.
So the OP’s son’s HS teachers will really be a great source of info- does it take me longer to understand a problem in class? Do my issues seem to be conceptual or calculation-based?
Showing up freshman year feeling sharp in math really helps, especially since by mid-October, the engineering workload starts to feel oppressive.
But it’s terrific that OP’s son already has some insights on his performance…