<p>I can’t believe they haven’t done this here in Detroit. People might actually make it passed the 9th grade. </p>
<p>I am truly against this, but at least it might allow for some more kids to graduate.</p>
<p>This education task for all our people is grander by far than getting to the moon. But I recommend watching that 10-year-old documentary “From Earth to the Moon” for some sort of inspiration for all teachers, those in waiting and those at the end of their careers. And best of all if only one, watch the 10th installment: Galileo Was Right. The theme of this segment is to “Find a teacher who can bring out the scientific mind in all of them” (speaking here of astronauts). But it is worth watching again and again.</p>
<p>Help me out here. In this new system, which is the “bad” teacher? The one who assigns homework and doesn’t grade it? Or the teacher who assigns no homework at all? (I can almost hear the whining: “Mom I know I didn’t do most of the homework, but I’d have passed the course if the teacher had graded my homework I did turn in.”)</p>
<p>The scary thing is that DISD is one large school district, but I am sure there are many more large & small districts doing the same thing, officially or unofficially. Nothing annoyed my S more than all the “programs”, assemblies, worksheets, lectures, that all students were forced to do in an effort to raise the test scores of the hs. Without success, I might add. Just as the students work to the level of expectations, so do the teachers, in many cases. How long can even the most effective teachers in these situations hold out against the mass of others/administrators/parents who dont’ want waves?</p>
<p>My son has Asperger’s Syndrome and has had no accomodations at school for about 6 years. I’d love to have DISD’s list of new policies as my son’s list of accomodations…he’d be near the top of the class if he had those!</p>
<p>“This is just going to lead to teacher giving up on assigning homework.”</p>
<p>Whew! Glad to hear it. The idea that teachers might actually be expected to assist students is absolutely intolerable!</p>
<p>“Whew! Glad to hear it. The idea that teachers might actually be expected to assist students is absolutely intolerable!”</p>
<p>I’ll try very hard to ignore your sarcasm.</p>
<p>I really wish that there was some way to hold parents accountable.</p>
<p>Me, too. If child repeatedly doesn’t turn work in, it would be a great idea to contact the parents. I’m sure it’s very telling (and not surprising) when the parents don’t return calls or neglect to show up for parent teachers conferences.</p>
<p>When I think of my own three kids and how they’d do in school if I wasn’t involved in the least and wasn’t supportive of their school experience, here’s how I think they’d do:</p>
<p>Son17: crash and burn
Daughter15: still great grades
Daughter 12: not failing, but probably average</p>
<p>High school teachers can have 100 students. Depending on the school, 40% or more of the students may not do homework. It’s ridiculous to be expecting overworked, underpaid teachers to be expected to call parents when students repeatedly don’t do homework.</p>
<p>I’ve volunteered in schools in which many students were in academic trouble. Typically, such students lacked permanent addresses and phone numbers. Many were being raised by grandparents who also were working two jobs. Some were with parents who refused to return phone calls from schools, etc.</p>
<p>The only time that parents would show up would be at sports events and graduation. </p>
<p>At open houses, parent conferences, etc., next to no one would come. One school even offered a free dinner for parents and kids (including younger sibs) at the school’s annual open house. Few parents came.</p>
<p>What that Dallas school district is doing is not going to work. Teachers will simply give good grades for students who are doing nothing. Other teachers will find jobs elsewhere.</p>
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<p>Why do we always assume that public school teachers are overworked and underpaid? Have you read the contracts extorted by unions in large urban cities such as New York lately? What did happen to the “planned” meetings with parents? How much does the average wage amounts to on a per hour basis of WORKED time? What jobs are there out there that pay similar hourly wages for the same … qualifications? </p>
<p>While it should not be the responsibility of teachers to track down homework all the way to the parents, it remains that it is a HUGE copout to blame the parents lack of support for the downfall of our public system of education. In fact, the system works as long as parents are able to provide assistance and education during the elementary school years. As soon as students enter middle schools and the least able parents start to encounter difficulties educating their own kids, the results in school drop. By the time students enter high school, we witness the abysmal results a la Detroit where fewer than 1 OUT 4 students do graduate! </p>
<p>The public “education” system took on (actually grabbed forcefullly from better equipped providers) the responsibility to educate ALL children, and especially the children from families that NEEDED the help and support. Our country’s education systen has been slipping for the past 50 years, and it is easy to trace the causes behind the slow but consistent erosion. We were at the edge of a disaster 25 years ago and we have simply gone even deeper. </p>
<p>Time has come to allow for an open competition to return and force the schools that are unable to meet their responsibilities to step up their efforts via work hours that are comparable to the working class they are suppposed to serve. Education should be a year long effort … if we expect Wal*Mart to remain open 24/7/365, why do we accept that our schools are open for less than a full year? What would be wrong to expect education to be a 40 hours per week, 50 weeks per year job? Are we doing so well compared to the rest of the world that we can afford to rest on our laurels and base our education on a system developed for an agrarian economy? </p>
<p>When a company fails and stumbles into bankruptcy, it is rare to blame the … customers. The public will typically blame the bosses, the directors, and sometimes the employees. Yet, when it comes to education, the blame is always deposited at the feet of the “customers,” namely the students and their parents. </p>
<p>And we are supposed to be the most efficient and smart country in the world!</p>
<p>^^^ I work in a high school (I’m not a teacher). Most of the teachers I know work at LEAST 40 hours per week. During the summer, they are taking required classes to keep up their certifications. Or many of them work in the summer programs our district runs (fee-based). It may seem like they don’t work that many hours because they leave the building by 4pm - but most of them have been there since 7 am, and often they are taking work home with them. Not just grading papers and preparing lesson plans, but serving on committees, advising student groups, coaching, etc (and the “stipends” for advisors and coaches are laughably low.)</p>
<p>That said, there are a few teachers who take advantage of the system, just as in any profession. I know a couple of teachers with horrible attendance records, some with no discernible lesson plans, and others who never bother to return papers to students. What frustrates me about the teachers’ union is that it is virtually impossible to fire these teachers if they have tenure. They pretty much have to assault a student in front of someone else to get fired. We have some new, energetic, enthusiastic teachers who were laid off this year, and a couple of older ones who are awful who will be back next year, simply due to “seniority.” I understand that Seniority is there so that districts won’t simply fire older, more expensive teachers to replace them with younger, cheaper ones, but there needs to be some easier way of firing teachers who are incompetent or simply coasting thru their last years till retirement. (Not to stereotype, there are some lousy young teachers too, but it’s easy to fire them before they get tenure.) But again, these teachers are the exception. Most of the teachers I know work hard, more hours than most people realize, and genuinely care about their students.</p>
<p>But all this is off-topic. The point is that Dallas is lowering standards, apparently in an effort to retain students. But it sounds to me like the students won’t be learning valuable life lessons that would serve them in the working world (do assignments on time, etc). And any “diploma” they earn won’t be worth much if no one has any respect for the DISD.</p>
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<p>I love this one. When I attended my kid’s middle school graduation I could not find a seat to sit because all seats were reserved for parents, grandparents, uncles,… (with a only a piece of paper or clothe on the chair). At other parent meetings I could only see about 2 dozens.</p>
<p>what wack jobs believe that we are the most efficient and smart country ??</p>
<p>As to competition for schools, it already exists in the form of magnet and charter schools. Some are more successful than others, many are no more successful than average public schools. </p>
<p>The problems with American public K-12 education are very complex. They begin with a lack of basic agreement on what education should be, what it should accomplish and how. Add to that inequity in funding, a non-homogenous population, questionable roles played by administrators and a bizarre, illogical way of hiring/retaining teachers… and you have one big mess on your hands the solution to which is also complex and unlikely to satisfy everyone who has a stake in it.</p>
<p>"Why do we always assume that public school teachers are overworked and underpaid? Have you read the contracts extorted by unions in large urban cities such as New York lately? What did happen to the “planned” meetings with parents? "</p>
<p>Because I have volunteered and have consulted extensively with public schools in cities like Detroit and the city in which I now live. The good teachers and GCs are being way underpaid for the work that they do. The parents of most kids who are in inner city schools opt out of the educational process completely. </p>
<p>As president of the parent teacher organization for the magnet program at the inner city high school where both of my sons were in a magnet program, I had a close inside look at what goes on in the schools, and how very difficult it is for teachers to involve parents.</p>
<p>For instance, the school offered to parents information on the state exam that all kids have to pass to get a h.s. diploma, info on scholarships, info on higher education and vocational options, including those specifically for low income people. These presentations were offered on Saturdays and on weekday evenings. Food was even offered during the presentation, and it was fine for parents to bring younger kids.</p>
<p>Information about these events was mailed to the students and the school personally called the students’ households, and announced on the school’s loudspeaker system.</p>
<p>Result: Basically the only parents who came were those of the kids in the magnet program, which made up less than 20% of the school population.</p>
<p>At open houses, the classrooms of the magnet programs would be filled to standing room only. I would literally see teachers sitting in empty classrooms of the regular school. </p>
<p>Yet, the parents who wouldn’t show up to things like this would show up to see their kids in athletic games, and would come to graduation, and would show up if their kids had legal problems. Many of the parents were not high school grads, and also could be very abusive (such as cursing and making verbal threats) to teachers, things that I have witnessed.</p>
<p>It really isn’t the schools’ fault. I’ve seen the schools do what they could to connect with such parents. </p>
<p>Another example: The magnet school’s parent-teacher organization included most of the families in the magnet program, and raised money for the school, and volunteered for the school, including doing things that were for the regular school, not just the magnet program. Some of the parents who did these things lived very far away from the school and had time-consuming ordinary jobs. The school-wide parent-teacher organization had only about 10 (literally) paid members, and they became angry at the school because they thought the school should be giving their organization money! A lot of the principal’s time was spent trying to fight off angry parents from that group who were demanding “their share” of the school’s money!</p>
<p>I saw this personally because another magnet school parent and I joined the school-wide parent organization in hopes of helping it become a support to the school. What a waste of our time! What a waste of the school’s teachers and administrators who went to that organization’s meetings. In a year, the organization had done absolutely nothing – raised no money, provided no volunteers – for the school except fuel dissention. Yet, those parents in that organization were among the few in the nonmagnet part of the school who bothered to do things like go to meetings – meetings that many of the parents of kids in the regular school could have walked to!</p>
<p>Well said, katliamom.</p>
<p>You know, you couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher…listen to some of you; you show no respect for people who, for the most part, genuinely care about their students and work hard to educate them, often with curriculums that they wouldn’t have chosen if given the opportunity.</p>
<p>I feel bad for teachers; they get all the blame when things go wrong and none or very little of the credit when things go right. Their position reminds me horribly of that of a secretary…everyone procrastinates and/or half does their job. She has no authority to hurry them up. Then it’s up to ther to make sure that the proposal goes out on time and in perfect form. If it’s late or there’s a mistake, you can be sure who’ll take the blame.</p>
<p>Undoubtedly there are teachers who should find other professions, but how do you expect to attract really talented candidates to teaching when they have so little control over what actually goes on in the classroom and get no respect and/or support from their students, the parents, the community and many times their own administrators?</p>
<p>“And any “diploma” they earn won’t be worth much if no one has any respect for the DISD.”</p>
<p>I am 58 years old. Not once in my entire life has anyone asked for my high school diploma, and only in applying to college did they ever ask for a transcript.</p>
<p>I don’t recall a lot of “homework” in college (not the kind that had to be turned in for a grade)…but I do pity the kids who learn that deadlines are meaningless…won’t work well for then in college or in later life.</p>
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<p>Well, that places you in a wonderful position to lift the veil on the exact wages paid per hour in Detroit! And, while we are at it, would you be so kind to share with this board the exact numbers of hours that are covered by the CBA in that district, and perhaps share some light about absenteeism and use of substitutes? </p>
<p>However, posing such questions is ALWAYS problematic because it amounts to criticizing the TEACHERS as if they were a homogeneous block. I do believe that good teachers are as much victims of the “system” as parents and students are. The sad reality is that the public school systems are ROTTEN TO THE CORE and that this simply a result of having allowed corrupt and lazy organizations to control the administrations. The Dallas ISD is one such district … a district that has been involved in scandal after scandal ranging from embezzlement to organized corruption.</p>
<p>Regardless of the claims that teachers do work a lot for small wages, there is ample evidence that is … simply false. There are teachers that DO work for smaller wages, but they do this in the non-public sector. </p>
<p>However, the issue of wages is also a canard. With districts routinely spending more than 50% on administrative expenses, there should be tons of money available by streamlining those expenses and reducing the waste to a minimum. Other countries do not seem to have the same tendencies of feeding the fat and lazy cats that find refuge in our education system. The reality is that we could and *should * pay our teachers better (although some districts in the North East would laugh at this idea) but also expect more from them. Want to stop the complaints about taking jobs to your home … force all preparation and gradings AT the school. A system where teachers would spend a few more hours at the school and have students participating in organized homeworks should not be … that devastating. But, whoops, that is NOT covered in the typical CBA!</p>
<p>"Well, that places you in a wonderful position to lift the veil on the exact wages paid per hour in Detroit! And, while we are at it, would you be so kind to share with this board the exact numbers of hours that are covered by the CBA in that district, and perhaps share some light about absenteeism and use of substitutes? "</p>
<p>I don’t know what the wages were for teachers in Detroit. What I do know is that the teachers whom I knew were not living affluent lives, while some administrators did seem to be well off.</p>
<p>No one could have paid me to do what I saw the teachers in Detroit having to do. No one could have paid me to do what I see the teachers in my current city having to do. Where I currently live, teachers also are not living lavish lifestyles, though administrators seem to be comfortable. Still, I wouldn’t want to have to deal with the problems that the administrators at the schools with large numbers of first generation HIGH SCHOOL students have to deal with.</p>
<p>Certainly, there are some teachers and administrators all over the country who aren’t good. This particularly is true of the public schools that have large numbers of low income students. Such schools have relatively high proportions of new teachers and teachers who are not certified in the areas that they teach. I have, for instance, seen AP English teachers in inner city public schools who lacked basic grammar skills (and the fact that their students could’t pass the AP tests reflected the teachers’ weak skills).</p>
<p>I am convinced that if wages were higher and if teachers didn’t have to deal with so much red tape and micromanagement, a better quality of person would be willing to teach, particularly in the weakest schools. However, even better teachers would not be able to fully make up for the lack of parental support for most of the students who are in the lowest performing schools.</p>
<p>Teachers can’t completely make up for the fact that many kids are not getting decent meals at home, are allowed to stay out all night, and many parents don’t even notice or care if the kids go to school or do homework.</p>
<p>As for the idea that all that’s needed is for teachers to stay a few hours extra in school to provide a space for students to do their homework, S’s school got a grant to do exactly that. It also provided a veteran, caring, teacher who taught study skills. The free program was designed to help the many students at the school who were having problems passing. Unfortunately, few of those students bothered to sign up even though they were the ones who were given priority for the program. They were too busy doing things after school like sports team practice. Many of the students who ended up taking the program were “B” magnet school students whose parents wanted them to raise their grades.</p>