I ran into more detail about the students who voted against this Jewish student because she’s Jewish. "Negeen Sadeghi-Movahed is vice chair in the Iranian student group and Sofia Moreno Haq is active in UCLA’s Muslim Students Association (MSA). So in other words, 2 Muslims felt enabled to vote against a Jew. A third is from Switzerland. And that is the state of so much of academia.
The article said there are 14 members on the council. I’m wondering does everyone have to vote yes? Seems to me 9 out of 13 should have been good enough.
There were 7 votes and it was 4-3 until the faculty advisor said this was inappropriate. Why that didn’t happen earlier is beyond me. To be clear, my point is that Muslims have inculcated a degree of anti-semitism so blinding they can’t see themselves as racist: someone involved with of all things the Iranian student group and/or the Muslim Students Assoc. somehow can’t internalize the obvious because … I don’t need to say.
“To be clear, my point is that Muslims have inculcated a degree of anti-semitism so blinding they can’t see themselves as racist: someone involved with of all things the Iranian student group and/or the Muslim Students Assoc. somehow can’t internalize the obvious because … I don’t need to say”
Well, of course. One shouldn’t have to explain hatred for Jews. It is well deserved, and the normal course of things. Jews are what is wrong with the world, and no explanation is needed. Doesn’t everybody know that?
I say that with sad sarcasm, but unfortunately, I believe that is what many Muslims think. Now that Jews are no longer subjugated by Muslims, they no longer know their place, and that, apparently, is quite a reason for outrage.
"Not necessarily. You will probably find it shocking, but I would, at this point, not oppose disbanding the state of Israel as it is currently constituted and would happily invite its entire population to come to the US to live. I think it would be better for us all in the long run. I am not an anti-semite and I don’t dislike Jews.
I would point out, as I did above, that it is perfectly possible to think that the existence of Israel as a Jewish state is–or may be-- untenable without wanting any harm to come to a single Jew. Quite the contrary. Of course, if one’s method is to destroy the population, that’s another matter. That’s genocide."
That is one of the more naïve things I have read. Any other countries you’d like to disband, or just Israel?
We can tell all Israelis that it’s just too bad that the Jewish people have had a continuous presence in Israel for thousands of years, and too bad that they purchased most of the land from Arab land owners, they gotta move. Bummer if your family has lived there for generations, too bad about the house you built, the business you created, your way of life, your livelihood, the connection to your homeland, your religion. I do think that constitutes wanting harm to come to people.
And hey, ya’ll can just come on over here. Maybe we can find you a nice piece of desert you can fix up that nobody wants. There’s some lovely parcels of land right by some of the nuclear waste storage sites. Too bad about the trillions of dollars of value that you’ve lost, being forced out of your homes and businesses. We’ll just give that to the Palestinians, who will turn it into another garden spot like the Gaza strip, maybe it can be a new breeding ground for terrorists, ISIS is looking to spread out a little bit. Who needs an oasis of sanity, prosperity, and rational thinking in the Middle East anyways? 8-|
It looks like some here are making the same judgements about Muslims that are essentially similar to those the offensive judgements that the council people in question made about Jews.
^^Look around the world. See the hate. See the anti-Semitism. The contempt. Of course it’s not every Muslim, but pretending that it doesn’t exist in massive numbers worldwide isn’t being honest, in any respect.
Yes, plenty of Muslims are anti-Jewish. But if it is offensive for someone to assume that being Jewish necessarily means some sort of prejudice, why is it not offensive to assume the same thing about being Muslim?
Because the two Moslems being commented on proved their prejudice by voting against the Jewish student.
^^Agreed. It is not an assumption that the students were prejudiced against her because she was Jewish, it is a fact. They acknowledged how highly qualified she was, but voted against her purely because of her faith. There are no assumptions involved.
Many people are fond of the Maya Angelou expression that “when someone tells you who he is, believe him” and I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly. The governments of most of the countries in the Middle East tell us very clearly that they hate Jews and want to not just obliterate the state of Israel but chase down every Jew and kill them. I believe their words and the point at which they are (God forbid) proben true, it will be entirely too late to say “oops.” There people of all ethnicities and religious backgrounds who blame the Jews for pretty much everything. I think that’s because they don’t expect the guy with the black hat and the side curls to ring their doorbells and kill them. Not so much with other groups.
I can’t help comparing this case to the OU case. In the OU case, two students have been expelled, purportedly for creating a “hostile atmosphere” by engaging in a racist chant on a charter bus that only became public because somebody videoed it and released it, apparently anonymously. In the UCLA case, a group of students not only made improper remarks, they actually took discriminatory action. It seems to me that those students actually did create a hostile atmosphere for Jews. And yet, this case is a “teaching moment,” while the OU case isn’t. Also, the apology of the kid in the OU case was much better than the non-apology of the UCLA kids. Don’t get me wrong–the underlying action was reprehensible in both cases. But the official reaction is not the same.
@Hunt, I agree with you, the disparity in official reactions is troubling.
If the OU case had happened at UCLA, I think the official reaction would have been the same as the OU reaction. I don’t know what would have happened at OU if the UCLA case had happened there.
The UCLA students were lucky to have a sensible adult advisor there to save them from disaster.
The reason the cases are different is Jews were not the target. People accept a high level of anti-Jewish statements and sentiments that are unacceptable public discourse if directed against African-Americans.
As for prejudice, I try to judge people based on how they act and what they say but of course, like any human being, I make judgements on sight or hearing. I don’t agree with the (to me, absurd) studies that show “implicit bias” because the test, to me, is how you treat a person. We all have implicit bias - for or against tall people, short people, fat people, thin people, pretty people, dark people, blonde people, etc. - and there is no way to eliminate that, but we can treat people better. The UCLA students failed absolutely on the count of treating Jewish people fairly.
When I was little, I’d go to the hospital with my dad on Saturday. It was an inner city hospital that served many poor people. My dad told me: you’re going to see every bad thing about people but you can’t let that change how you treat them. As I got older, he’d remind me you’re going to see every bad stereotype, but you can’t let that … This isn’t hard. That it happens at major schools so often now is sad.
I have to say that I’m not easily shocked, but I was shocked by the UCLA case, more so than the OU case.
I agree Hunt. Frat boys never surprise me by their awful behavior. But the student council at my Alma Mater? REALLY AWFUL.
You have not seen how people with fringe politics can get elected to student government when most of the students are politically apathetic about the student government? Or how the nastiness of Israeli - Palestinian politics can result in ugly racist spillover?
Perhaps it may be shocking in isolation, but, like the OU ΣAE case, it is less of a surprise given the context. (Of course, it is despicable, surprise or not.)
“You have not seen how people with fringe politics can get elected to student government when most of the students are politically apathetic about the student government?”
That’s true. Having been pretty apathetic (re student politics) back in grad school…this WAS a surprise.