@beachgirl1019 Thanks for mentioning the Dyer Center! I just checked it out and it looks great - it’s just making my decision harder because Lafayette was not initially too high up on the list due to its lack of a business major but this definitely changes things! Though the weather is a bit of a concern coming from a tropical country…
@beachgirl1019 I forgot to ask, what are the surrounding areas of Lafayette like? Is there much to do?
W&M is not conservative! (Nor is all of northern Virginia with 36% of the state’s population.) Charlottesville, Richmond and Williamsburg are all liberal places.
My D19 is very liberal and politically aware. She visited W&M three times, met many students, and practiced with a club sports team. She felt so at home and found the students to be so kind and interesting, that she applied ED. Since being accepted, she has communicated with lots of admitted students and finds them to be very like-minded.
I am actually hoping that the fact that W&M is more moderately liberal than other choices on her list (Vassar, Wesleyan) will be good for my daughter’s understanding of different viewpoints.
Fwiw, we just visited W&M and have a relative who is currently a student there. We met with her after the tour and found that the info we received on the tour matched her point of view except for the fact that grade deflation at W&M is, in her opinion, a reality. This may be something you want to explore further since grad school is something you will pursue.
The joke she told was that a third of the students at W&M are involved in athletics, while another third are active in Greek life and the last third never leave their dorm rooms. She said the student body is politically liberal but that most students are too busy to be activist. Our S17 is interested in math and the life sciences and W&M provides an excellent education in these areas. Class sizes are relatively small and taught by professors. It is definitely more nerdy than UVA and UNC, but S was pleased by that. Williamsburg is a small, quaint and safe college town.
Good luck to you.
@Anisqoyo Do you know if W&M is academically too intense? I do want to have a balance between my academics, social life and extra curriculars. When you say classes are small, are they discussion based or still lectures?
You will get the smallest classes at Lafayette. Great faculty-student interaction. Faculty have students to their houses for dinner. No business major, but great Econ department, student investment fund, finance certificate, places kids in finance and other business jobs, NYC is a common destination (look at their career report). Career services starts working with kids as freshmen. They have engineering, and students work together across majors in the new center.
UNC and W&M will have a large majority of instate students (they’re state schools). Lafayette will be more geographically diverse and has a larger percentage of international undergrads than the other 2 (10%).
The surrounding area is a cute town, walking distance - Easton. There are flights into ABE, close to the school.
You don’t get an MBA right after undergrad. You need to work for a few years, then go back. An Econ degree is generally more rigorous than a business degree, and none of the very top schools have business schools (except for Penn/Wharton). You’ll want a very high GPA and a good work history. I haven’t looked for MBAs, but at least for law, they placed well into T14 law schools.
As a liberal arts school with engineering, the school is not overrun by frats/sports, and there are definitely many different kinds of kids.
@procake It generally snows 2-3 times a year at Lafayette (about 6 or so inches). It is definitely colder than the other two schools, but if you’re looking for a change of pace in college, you might actually enjoy experiencing a new climate!
My takeaway from W&M is that it is more academically focused, and intense, than UVA. We toured both UVA and W&M and there is most definitely a rivalry there. Each school was eager to compare themselves to the other. The students we talked with, including our niece, spent a lot more time studying than they expected their first semester, but all of them loved the school and the classes they were taking. I got the impression that the work/social life balance was a challenge and was determined a great deal by your course of study. Grading was tough and finding a prof that used a curve was desirable but rare.
My S has W&M as a top 3 (after visiting 10 schools) so my concern at this point is if there is an advantage to having a degree from W&M - vs similar schools- in the eyes of the top companies who recruit there and with top graduate programs.
@procake Lafayette is a 5-10 minute walk outside of the small city of Easton. The neighborhood Lafayette is in (College Hill) is mainly residential, but has coffee shops and pizza places, etc. Downtown Easton though is a really cute small city though. It has a booming restaurant industry (Steakhouse, French Bistro, Italian Cafe, Public Market, Ramen Bar). There are also two small concert venues (One Center Square and State Theater of the Arts). The city also hosts a number of Food Festivals throughout the year. Students also have access to free public transportation that brings you throughout the Lehigh Valley, which has even more to do.
btw, there are numerous lectures with large class sizes (Chemistry, Calc BC, Psychology, etc.) but most upper level classes were 20-25 students and discussion based. I found the culture at W&M to be collaborative in nature. One of the things my S looked for was access to the profs and the ability to build a relationship with them. There appears to be ample opportunity for both here as well as participating in research projects. W&M has all the advantages of a LAC but offers so much more because it has a strong grad program.
You have 3 great options but I can speak for UNC.
- you will have some lecture halls initially in your intro classes, but class sizes are much smaller as you continue. You will also have non lecture hall classes your first year…my daughter had classes under 30 in addition to lecture halls.
- the airport is not far from the school
- you will find your peer group, including intellectual conversations over dinner that you mentioned.
- it is a state school which means you will meet many students from N.C. You will also meet plenty of students from all over the world…as well as the US. My D has a mix of friends from all over…but …keep in mind …make no mistake…that this is a N.C. state university and not a private school.
- if you want relationships with professors, you will have them. Classes are often discussion based, including intro lecture halls ( believe it or not). There is a reason why UNC is a strong state school…part of this is due to the way lecture halls are taught
- there are 16,000 undergrads and about 10,000 grad students. Your other 2 excellent choices are smaller.
- the town flows into the campus, and there are lots of places to eat…but I can’t say whether they are open for a 2 am run!
- if research is your thing, you will do research…regardless of major.
- I can’t speak about the business school or getting an MBA. I do think that students in the business school do mandatory study abroad, but don’t quote me on that.
- if attending lectures and seeing guest speakers interest you…you will have it at UNC
- you will be intellectually challenged in a collaborative environment. I say this as the parent of an out of state student who works hard
- Greek life is small, basketball is huge. That being said, if basketball is not your thing… you don’t have to watch. I will say that for a relatively large school, the spirit helps bring everybody together as one big family. I never appreciated school spirit until recently.
- the school and area are liberal
You have 3 excellent options with a lot to offer. Lafayette will offer you the smallest class size right from the start, I would think. Best wishes…you won’t go wrong with any of these choices.
We are also looking at 2 of these 3 schools and agree that is an extremely difficult choice. To follow up on OP’s question re: reputation – I think all have great reputations in the mid-Atlantic area. What do folks think about the name recognition/reputation of these 3 outside of the mid-Atlantic area? I’m asking not so much about the reputation with grad schools (who will know and respect all these schools) but with the average but educated professional Joe/Joanne in urban areas who could be potentially be hiring a first-year graduate – say in Boston, NYC, Chicago, SF or LA . (While I don’t think name recognition is hugely important, it is something to consider and we are struggling to find tie-breakers).
You can’t go wrong with any of these. If you want sports, UNC is the clear option. From what you have said, IMO, Lafayette and W&M seem more to be up your alley. I have known a few international students that attended Lafayette and thrived there, had nothing but good things to say. W&M most difficult of classes. All great options. Good luck!
@beachgirl1019 Are all classes at Lafayette discussion-based? Are the academics at Lafayette very intense?
@Anisqoyo Do the discussion-based classes not function well as 25 may be too big of a number? What percentage would you say of the classes are discussion-based?
@twogirls What classes of UNC would you say are discussion based? Is the culture of the school more preprofessional focused or more life of the mind focused? (I am looking for the latter) Are students competitive? Because the student population is much larger, do you tend to get swept up and get lost in the crowd? Do you know if the undergraduate program admissions at UNC is competitive?
@VA–>NC The thing is that I want to double major in psychology and business while minoring in philosophy. So basically, I am looking for a school that offers a great undergrad business program but also a very intimate academic setting. With UNC, I get a superior undergrad business program with an abundance of resources for entrepreneurship but no intimate academic setting with discussions. On the other hand, I get the type of intimate academic setting I want but no undergrad business program. As for W&M, they have a great undergrad business program as well but has less resources for entrepreneurship than UNC and the academic setting is intimate but not as much as I would want it to be. Although W&M does have a great undergrad business program, it doesn’t have that many resources for entrepreneurship - so it’s neither here nor there. For Lafayette, I get the ideal academic setting but no business program. So I am trying to figure out which one of them will be the best compromise.
Congrats! My family has a legacy at Lafayette and let me tell you, it’s def the correct move. Lafayette has a solid Greek life, great academics, and very good professors! The D1 sports aren’t quite as competitive as UNC but they still have them! I say the main reason to go to Lafayette isn’t exactly the college life (which is great, but won’t help you lots in the long run) but, it’s the support from Alumni. Since Lafayette is so close to Philadelphia and NYC there are so many post- college jobs. My dad got Aton I’d help from alumni when he graduated. He managed to get a great corporate job after college in a law firm almost INSTANTLY out of college in Philly. My grandfather and mother both PRAISE the support and location of the school. You should really take this into consideration, jobs are getting harder and harder to get and Lafayette has one of the best post-graduate programs in the country. Not to mention the fact it’s also a great school if your going on to Law or business school. I hope this review helped!
@underavgscholar Thank you! I am not looking for Greek life so that is actually a bit of a turn-off for me. At the risk of sounding privileged, I already have a job set up for me after college - to take over my family business. So job rates aren’t really too high up on my priority list although I still do take it into consideration. What I am really looking for in a college is to be able to have a great academic experience through intimate classroom settings while having the resources to support me for my entrepreneurial ventures and to teach me enough theoretical business to prepare me in case I choose not to get an MBA. Though it does appealing that Lafayette will be a great school if I want to go into business school. Basically, I need a school that has an intimate academic setting but will prepare me both for the potential of a pursuit of an MBA but also in the event that I get into the business world and don’t get an MBA, so I would need some sort of business academic background from undergrad.
@procake some of the discussion based classes were in anthropology, policy, literature, certain science classes…to name a few. I can’t speak about the business school. I do think there is some preprofessional focus, but there is not a very strong presence and it is definitely NOT what my D wanted in a school. My D does not find the students to be competitive, yet at the same time she works hard ( hope that makes sense) and enjoys spending time discussing different topics with her peers. It is not uncommon for them to attend a Friday night series on climate change, for example. As far as getting lost in the crowd…much of that depends on you and your study habits, organizational skills, ability to seek out assistance, etc. My D found her professors to be caring and helpful…she is very close with several of them.
As far as admissions, it is very competitive for out of state students due to state legal caps. I also want to remind you that although UNC is an outstanding school, it is a relatively large state university and it is bigger than your other two excellent options.