Under 3.6 (GPA) and Applying Top 20 Parents Thread

Parents Forum
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<p>Ldinct,
What math class is your S currently taking and what are his grades like? Would it be possible for your S to take AP Stat senior year and not take the Intro to Calc/Intro to Stats? What I’m asking is whether it’s math in general that is a struggle or is it that he doesn’t feel prepared for AP Calc? AP Stat might help with the “rigorous” curriculum designation but not be as tough as AP Calc, and depending on the area of humanities he wants to study, may be useful in his future. Does the school offer AP Calc AB or BC?</p>

<p>My younger S has always been a B+ math student with 600-range standardized scores. (He’s a social sciences guy.) He said junior year Calc AB was when he felt everything came together and made sense, and his standardized scores shot up then as well. He chose not to take AP BC Calc senior year so that he could focus on other things. </p>

<p>For kids in this GPA range, a strong first semester senior year is critical, and college essays should take a LOT of time and energy. If taking AP Stat or AP Calc could jeopardize his grades in other courses and/or putting together some great apps, I would take the Intro classes and not look back. I would <em>not</em> recommend skipping math senior year, however.</p>

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<p>So hard to believe that this thread is now an academic year old! It’s been so fun to watch/read/find out where everyone is going. As some of you know, my 3.6 w. GPA son is heading to Tulane and he’s very happy with his choice. A 2040 sat, outstanding ECs and 4s and 5s on AP tests (he does know the material!) weren’t enough for some schools (technically not top 20, but top 25) but were good enough for out of state UCSD and merit money at several schools. He opted for the smaller school with the stunning campus in a city where he could make a difference and we’re delighted. (okay, maybe not with the price tag)</p>

<p>I guess I’m posting because even though he went into it knowing he had a low GPA, we were hopeful the “holistic” process would help, but I think, after a year of this experience, that it pretty much boils down to GPA… It’s surprising that more kids aren’t totally burned out by the time they step foot on a college campus.</p>

<p>anyway. I’m now facing another round – I have a rising senior with an even lower GPA 3.0-3.3 GPA but with 2200 SATs and an EC that’s somewhat of a hook. Fortunately there aren’t any “Top 20s” on his list, but there are, again, some top 25s. </p>

<p>Not sure I’ll be able to get him through this coming year without PaperChaserPop or mantori.suzuki to inspire me ;o) </p>

<p>p.s. on the Calculus question, I don’t know any kid in our area that is applying to competitive colleges and have not taken calculus even if it’s AB and not BC, it’s still calculus…youngest with the mediocre GPA is in calc now and taking ap stat next year. BUT…in retrospect, he should not have been pushed to take algebra in 7th rather than 8th grade because he really could have benefited from a year of maturity and simply taking calc his senior year.</p>

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<p>Yeah well, I don’t know if its even a choice. He only has an 85 in precal and I don’t think that’s high enough to get into the AP Cal even if he wanted to. I think you need an 89. Oh right this is the top 20 thread, forgot where I was for a moment. He was planning on taking the SAT’s this saturday but decided against it. He is happy with his 2220 for the moment and wants to try and get math higher in the fall. He’s got 6 classes next year, 3 APs, 1 Independent Study, I think any more AP’s would be too much. I know there are many who take 5-6. But he knows his limits.</p>

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<p>ldinct, except for one semester of AB Calc, S2 always had math grades in the mid-upper 80s. Nailed things conceptually, made stupid math errors and transpositions.</p>

<p>I think three APs, an independent study and two other classes sound just fine. He will be plenty busy with apps and everything else this fall. If that’s the load he can handle and get strong grades, and he’s happy with it, go for it and don’t look back.</p>

<p>S2 had major burnout and stress migraines in November-February with 7 IB courses, apps, Extended Essay, etc. It was NOT pretty, and we are still dealing with the fallout. This was a kid who had dealt with the workload beautifully for 3.5 years. It shook his confidence and scared the @%$# out of me.</p>

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<p>Exactly CD, I was getting a little nervous this spring- pulling repeated all nighters Jr year is a little much. He was in bad shape at the beginning of the week and when he decided to bag the SAT on saturday I was relieved, because that would have meant no sleep this week either. Mental health is a fragile thing sometimes, plus I’m worried about him driving with little sleep.</p>

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<p>S2 has never pulled an all-nighter – he’s toast after 10-11 pm. Has been that way since he was a wee little guy. </p>

<p>He pushed really hard to get through football season and Early Action apps on top of 7 IB classes, and then when it came time to finish the EE, do the TOK paper and RD apps, there was nothing left in the tank.</p>

<p>We wished he’d have senioritis – but the workload didn’t end until last Wed. We told him as long as he got a 3.0 for the semester we were fine with it.</p>

<p>Glad your S knows where his limits are – that is a mature skill for 17 yos who so often think they are invincible.</p>

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<p>Even though my S s not applying to the top 20 colleges, I always have enjoyed this thread since S is applying to some very competitive schools and much of the info here also applies. But, my question is…how is GPA looked at by colleges and even for this and similar threads on CC? My S’s Cum GPA just reported on his report card came in at 3.667 this semester, but that is weighted by his school (his actual GPA is just over 3.5). </p>

<p>In any event, we are totally confused by the GPA issue–we get that he doesn’t have a 4.0 and that will effect so much of the application process and his chances at many schools, but then not much. Is 3.667 looked at any differently than a 3.5? Is it not looked at since it is weighted? Does it help that he’s never had a C? We are also having trouble determining safety/match and reach with all this, and it is not helping that he was 1 place out of top 10% at his school as of his last semester grades, and we have no idea if his 4As this semester helped him creep in there or not.</p>

<p>Just curious and learning.</p>

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<p>Yes, let’s keep this thread alive. It’s been very helpful for me to keep an eye on, too. My D is interested in some top schools - let’s say, top 50, anyway - and these distinctions are very helpful. Her grades and scores have crept up, and she may decide on a couple of higher reaches after all.</p>

<p>Best wishes to Class of '10!</p>

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<p>I just posted this on the 2015 thread, but S made high honor roll for the first time in his life this semester as a Jr. with AP’s and Honors classes. Now if his gpa was this high regularly and with his great SATs he would have a chance at a top 20. And he is taking 4 AP’s, 1 Independent Study and 1 other class next year, so fairly rigorous Sr schedule. Nice time to pick up the pace. It will be interesting to see what adcoms make of his growth. He gets great grades when he is taking harder classes, hmmm. I think maybe his SAT score in March gave him a confiedence boost as he saw that he did better than most of the A students and second semester is when he started to work harder. Hmmm</p>

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<p>GKMom, I think the colleges really do look at the GPA in the context of the school. If your S is in the top 10% that matters more than his specific GPA, particularly if the high school publishes rank. Remember, that SAT scores and percentage of students in top 10% are the stats the colleges publish, so finding students that can boost the college’s percentage in those categories are important to them! </p>

<p>Because we come from a very competitive high school, I never paid attention to the focus on GPA that consumes CC. I found Naviance extraordinarily helpful and we had very few surprises in the admissions decisions. </p>

<p>I think that for my S, he got rejected from schools whose acceptance rates were under 20%, and waitlisted or accepted at every school with a rate above (except for one school which is notorious for only taking recruited athletes from our HS). His SATs were extraordinary, though, as I"m sure were his recommendations. He was not in the top 10% at our school.</p>

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<p>SDonCC… I find your post helpful and interesting. My S also goes to a very competitive top 50 prep school and I always am so confused about whAT my 3.2-.3.3 GPA kid is going to get in the end. He only just finished his Sophmore year, so there is room for growth. No AP’s yet but a few scheduled for next year. He too is a high tester. Over 2100 10th grade PSAT. His teacher’s often comment that he is the smartest B student they have ever seen. I’m hoping next year will be his year. I think he will do better in the harder classes because he will HAVE to pay attention and study. He said the same thing. We will see. I’m happy to hear about the acceptances from schools over the 20% mark. He wants a small LAC. Not looking at schools in the under 20% range. I think even if he could get in to one of these schools miraculously… he would hate the competition and stress. He loves to learn, just hates to work hard. LOL!!!</p>

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<p>ldinct, congrats!!! My S didn’t make high honors, but I’ll take the 4 As!</p>

<p>5boys and ldinct…yes, my S usually does better in the harder classes too…he got As in an AP, an IB and an honors class (well, and an A in theater, his passion) But sometimes that makes me feel like a bad mom…if only I could have steered him to a more demanding schedule earlier??</p>

<p>We ae really happy with S’s SAT, a 2190. No Naviance at our school (can’t afford it, public) and so that is why we are so unsure if we are aiming right for him. </p>

<p>Right now we are hoping that he can creep into that top 10% since it seems that would help so much. One place out of the top 10% is still, well…only top 20% and therefore no help.</p>

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<p>Like many contributors to this thread, my D’s unweighted GPA hovers at 3.6. She has decent SAT scores, honors and AP courses, plenty of ECs and tons of volunteer hours BUT she only ranks in the top 40% at her private school. Her college list includes many safety and match schools (rank excluded) yet still, I’m very worried that her class rank will have a huge impact on admissions. I find it frustrating that a student with these credentials could likely suffer substantial consequences.</p>

<p>Can someone please explain why HS rank carries so much weight at so many colleges? Am I misinformed? It seems to me students should be ranked in comparison to others applicants. The more I read on CC the more it seems class rank has become a primary piece of data used to determine admissions.</p>

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<p>You are not misinformed. For instance, of the 35% of applicants who submitted their class rank in their application to Yale, 96% of Yale’s those accepted ranked in the top 10% of their class and 100% ranked in the top 25%. </p>

<p>I suppose it’s important because Yale, and schools like it, are looking for the most competitive kids both at individual high schools and as a peer group. </p>

<p>I’ve not participated in this thread because my son’s gpa was higher than 3.6, the highest ranked school he was admitted to was Brandeis, which I believe is ranked 31st at USNews and World Report. The lesson we came away with was that the high class ranking, high gpa, high standarized test scores, ecs, leadership roles and so on are simply expected. The rest is luck…if your student is who they are looking for that year, then great. If not, then that’s that.</p>

<p>However, if a student is competitive for these schools, then the fact is that they are very attractive prospects to other colleges and I see that others here had that same experience. My son did not get into Yale or Brown but he was offered very generous merit aid at other excellect colleges, including Northeastern where he will start in the fall. Go, Huskies!</p>

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<p>PTmajor5, the reason colleges use class rank is because high schools across the country are so very different that comparing GPAs can almost be meaningless! A student who gets a 3.3 average at School A might very well have a 4.0 at School B because the curriculum, workload and expectations can be vastly different. Many of the colleges take the HS GPAs and recalculate them according to their own formulas. I would guess (but this is just a guess) that they may even weight the GPAs according to what they know about the challenging nature of each individual high school. </p>

<p>The colleges want to see how well the student does in the context of their environment.</p>

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<p>I have not read the whole thread, but my kids attend a public high school. They have consistently taken Honors and AP classes. Pretty good EC’s . One daughter who is willing to attend a woman’s college was accepted to Smith and Mt. Holyoke. Has chosen to attend Smith. The other was accepted to Bard, Earlham, and Drew. Has chosen to attend Earlham. Both UW GPAs were about 3.4-3.5, weighted about 3.7-3.8. Smith and Bard were off the wait list.</p>

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<p>Does anyone feel that this thread could be restarted? I know a lot of people find themselves wondering how to apply the “top 20” mentioned in the title. It’s also kind of long. Maybe we could start it as “Around 3.6 GPA and Applying to Top Schools”? It is an important subsection of discussion, but over the past year has gotten very long. We could keep a link to this one as a reference.</p>

<p>Who wants to be the “poster child” for this topic? I’m not sure we’re appropriate, with only a couple of top schools on the academic dream list (there are several others, but they are for BFAs, depending on auditions, so not really relevant).</p>

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<p>Here’s another anecdotal point: I know of a girl who goes to Macalester, who had great stats all around except for consistently weak scores and grades in one subject. She clearly wasn’t going to major in that area, and the school has forgiven that, and given her a wonderful red carpet to study what she truly is gifted at.</p>

<p>This thread does tend to be full of the “one kid I heard of” stories, which don’t prove anything - but they show what’s possible. And that is what reaches are for. If you don’t think it’s possible, you don’t even bother, and that is a shame. With top schools there is never a guarantee, even with the highest grades, stats and rank.</p>

<p>I can’t imagine class rank at a tough private schools is looked at exactly the same as at a basic public. Colleges can’t be that narrow-minded. Of course if you have a high rank at a tough private that would be seen as “better.” But you’re going to look way more accomplished than a top 10% at what is clearly an easy school. They know a lot more about HSs than any of us think - and I mean that to be reassuring!</p>

<p>My D was top 25% as of last year. My guess is she went up this year, because her grades improved, and junior year is a very common time for kids who got easy As in 9th and 10th grades to start faltering under harder classes (many kids in my older D’s class disappeared from the high honor and even honor roll in Jr. yr). Our school doesn’t weight; what’s more, it calculates all grades without +s and -s. This has hurt my B+ kid a bit (and really helped my A- kid, although she had a number of A+s to balance them, and ended with a “real” 4.0 - way higher if weighted). </p>

<p>There are SO many variables. The point to the stories here - and thank you so much to people who have told us their results! - is that some mixture of high, if not perfect grades, good/great scores, a respectable class rank (within your community) and the rest of the package ARE desirable to quite selective schools. As with last year, we’ll be talking about reaches, reaches for any student, and seeing how it all turns out.</p>

<p>GKM - you son sounds delightful. Have plenty of reaches on his list (his SAT is going to help him a ton!). There are lots and lots of matches for him. Once you’ve found a safety he really likes, you can stop worrying and just leave it to fate (yeah, like that’s so easy!). Do what everyone says to do here: get some early acceptances (EA, rolling) so you can relax a bit.</p>

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<p>And remember that it really does come down to fit. When all was said and done, even if my kids had ended up with higher GPAs, they would not have picked anywhere but where they’re going anyway, I am convinced!</p>

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<p>Want to list what you consider “top 20”? It does change year to year, and there are LACs as well as national universities and regional schools. Some might consider Tufts on the top 20 list, and others not. The same with schools like Emory, CMU and of course all of the LACs.</p>