<p>I have a college senior, so I see myself in your place, UMMom.</p>
<p>UMMom, keep in mind that Starbucks might not want to hire your unemployed engineer because he’s overqualified. 
They’d like people who will stick around for awhile, or at least will commit fully while they’re hoping for something better. Given a choice between an unemployed engineering major and an unemployed journalism or english major, I’d bet that the Starbucks manager won’t be hiring the engineer. </p>
<p>Speaking for our family alone, we don’t expect first jobs out of college to match (let alone exceed) COA for the offspring.</p>
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<p>And I think that is tenuous because after the first couple years it depends on the person, the industry and the company and an ability to not only receive pay increases but to expand and grow responsibilities to “jump” salary bands. </p>
<p>But I did think the comment about starting salaries vs. cost of schooling interesting and a great illustration of just how fast college costs have escalated. My first job out of college with a BA paid double the cost of room, board and tuition for my senior year and my father was upset because it was less than is administrative assistant (called secretaries back then) earned with no college degree. But my salary doubled every couple years for the first 6 years. Now my son is in a job that is about equal to the cost of his last year of college room, board, fees & tuition. This scenario feels more the norm in today’s world. With the single digit salary increases and merit pay bumps these days it would be very difficult to double your salary every two years for six years.</p>
<p>Is it just me or is Abigail J’s article arrogant to the extreme? She cites a couple anecdotes about people who have done well, and concludes that everyone can do well. It’s about the same as saying: “I know a person who has won the lottery. So, anyone has a fair chance.”</p>
<p>Re: #24</p>
<p>Well, she looks like a “lottery winner” by being born into a wealthy family who likely paid for her college education and then employed her into the successful family business and fast tracked her to the executive ranks. Although she may have some reasonable points about over-entitlement and the like, she is not exactly the kind of messenger with the credibility to deliver it (unless the actual message is “don’t get your hopes up too high of moving up that far in socioeconomic class”).</p>
<p>Ugh. I found the author’s tone haughty and distasteful, even if some of what she said had merit.<br>
All you have to do is make your own opportunities, guys! We did it! So can you. </p>
<p>Some of the big differences between now and the 1970s, when I graduated, that come to the top of my head:</p>
<p>1.Global competition, both in and outside the country. Today’s young Americans are competing with students from all over the world, and many times the education of their competitors is superior. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Companies now often expect that you have already worked at the job they are hiring you for, either through internships, often unpaid, or through similar work at other companies.
It’s not uncommon to see, “Entry Level- 2-3 years experience required.”
A corollary to this is that they are now asking for a laundry list of specific skills that only those in the same industry already could possibly have acquired.</p>
<ol>
<li>Companies can advertise through the internet and receive hundreds of applications for each position without the applicant leaving their sofa. In the '70s, if you researched a particular geographic area through the newspaper ads or even in person, you had a chance of having your resume considered. In the ‘70s, I walked into offices, talked to people at companies in person, and I was welcomed at least, to apply. I could find job postings that went out to the local papers, an agency or two, and internally. Now, by the time something is posted, you can assume hundreds of apps are flowing their way electronically. Sometimes the postings will say, “Only the first 100 applications will be considered.” Walk into most retail outlets even, and they’ll say, “Apply on our website, please.”</li>
<li> Jobs in the print industries that used to hire many young, educated college grads like book, magazine and newspaper publishing are drying up and not being replaced. Teaching jobs are also few and far between, even for those with experience and special skills.</li>
<li>It used to be acceptable to wait tables or work at McDonald’s after graduation while you’re looking for that career job, but I cringed when I heard my own DH advise kids NOT to take those kinds of jobs if they are serious about getting into finance or business at the higher levels. ( He worked at Shakee’s Pizza when he was in his early 20s for Pete’s sake!) It "puts you in the wrong track in employers’ minds." Hard for me to believe, but since he’s a hiring manager at a major financial firm with 30 years of experience, I do. </li>
<li>Our major companies are making do with fewer employees doing more work. This effects all levels, from the administrative assistants to the people at the top. Executives with mid-six figure salaries often book their own flights, make their own appointments, make their own copies and fill out layers of paperwork previously done by lower-level employees. One assistant can now serve 4-6 executives where they may have been exclusive to one, years past.</li>
</ol></li>
</ol>
<p>I do feel for these new grads. It’s a miracle (luck, actually) that my own are employed–at least for now.</p>
<p>“Telling recent college graduates that they are underemployed may confuse them into believing that they should look to anyone but themselves for success.”</p>
<p>I still don’t really understand why people say this when we have 8% unemployment and 18% underemployment. </p>
<p>The thing I don’t really like about this article is that all underemployed (that is unemployed and part-time workers who want to work full-time) graduates are that way because of a particular mindset. If you’re having difficulty making ends meet and paying off student loans with the best/only job you got after graduation, you don’t have an entitlement problem. You’re just struggling to make ends meet. Finding a better job can be difficult when so many companies have complete hiring freezes.</p>
<p>It’s not that I (or many college students) would have a problem with starting out at an entry-level job after graduation, but I don’t quite understand why it’s unreasonable for us to be frustrated if we can’t find a job (after graduation) that we couldn’t have gotten straight out of high school? Any takers?</p>
<p>The statistics are probably as muddy as unemployment statistics are in general. Are they counting the kids who bail on thinking about a job and head for grad schools? Are they counting kids, are they analyzing last years grads or this year’s grads. The “old school” rule of thumb was it took one month for every 10M of salary…new school is probably closer to two months for every 10M of salary…how are they coming up with these statistics. Frankly you can parse them anyway you want. </p>
<p>But no, in general, a newly minted student with a BA is NOT going to find a top job unless they are in a very niche position…and even engineering is NOT a niche in and of itself, now a software engineer who wants to live in Metro Detroit and work on heads up displays as opposed to Silicon Valley might be considered a niche candidate and might score a top job. But then again salary/location/job…pick two out of 3 and go for it.</p>
<p>College grads today should not think they are entitled to top jobs. The number of college grads has increased significantly since 1970, and they are too plentiful now. There are not enough jobs for them.</p>
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<p>[Are</a> Too Many Students Going to College? - The Chronicle Review - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/Are-Too-Many-Students-Going/49039/]Are”>http://chronicle.com/article/Are-Too-Many-Students-Going/49039/)</p>
<p>Re: quote in #30</p>
<p>Does the 70% going to college include those heading to community college, some of whom are studying for entry into the skilled trades to work on building infrastructure and the like?</p>
<h1>30- That article is from 2009 - and pretty shabby - it is obvious you are making a political statement.</h1>
<p>All these kids have been told their entire life is work hard in school, go to college, get a degree, and you will be able to get a job.</p>
<p>Now they have found out that the last part of that sequence, which is also the most important part, is not nearly as much a given as it was a generation ago.</p>
<p>So, in a way, these kids feel (somewhat rightfully) lied too and that unrealistic expectations were planted in their heads.</p>
<p>“I think it’s the same attitide as young people expecting their first house to have stainless appliances and granite countertops.” </p>
<p>I do feel for the kids who worked hard in college (with parents paying big bucks) who can only get Starbucks job they qualified for out of hs… or worse, nothing at all. On the other hand, I roll my eyes at the HGTV shows where young adults expect high end kitchens in starter homes. It’s so refreshing to see a young couple view a modest home and express excitement.</p>
<p>I would argue that someone could be legitimately considered underemployed if the only job they can get could be done competently by someone with much less education. A graduate with a degree in Civil Engineering, Biology or Chemistry who is waiting on tables represents a huge waste of the time and resources the student and society invested in that individual’s education.</p>
<p>Imo, the difference between being an underemployed college graduate versus an employed high school graduate doing the same job is the opportunity for advancement up the ladder the college graduate has versus the high school graduate. Many from my generation (grad college mid-70’s) started out in lowly positions, too. My cousin’s husband, for example started his career behind the counter at a rent-a car branch and 30 some odd years later is now Sr. Vice President of their whole N. American operations. Or my husband, who after graduate school started as a budget examiner for the State of NY and now is a Director of an state agency. Doesn’t happen overnight and never did!</p>
<p>I know many recent grads who have had to take jobs paying only an hourly wage, but because the were smart and ambitious found the way to advance either where they started or elsewhere. All it takes is a willingness on their part to look for and then go after the opportunities to advance.</p>
<p>For several years, my nephew, who tool a couple of courses in community college, dropped out, and got a job installing HVAC systems in new homes, laughed at his two-years-older sister, who had a master’s degree (in American studies) and bounced from one underemployment situation to another, because he was making a lot more money than she was - so much for an education, right?</p>
<p>Then the housing marked imploded, and my nephew became unemployed (and still is). My niece, OTOH, is in a management position in an insurance company where she started as a receptionist, and where her smarts and poise were recognized and rewarded. Her future is bright, even though her college major didn’t give her any so-called “marketable” skills - his, uncertain, because there’s no market for the only thing he really knows how to do.</p>
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<p>This is the argument against dropping out of college – even if you’re at a no-name college, getting mediocre grades in an unmarketable major. Your unimpressive degree may not get you a good job starting out – you may have to compete with high school graduates and community college graduates for jobs that do not require a bachelor’s degree. But as your career progresses, you’re likely to hit a point where you cannot progress further without a bachelor’s degree. And at that point, you will be very glad that you have one.</p>
<p>I can imagine Abigail when she reads the NYT this morning over her brie and toast points. “These people need to start making their own luck!”</p>
<p><a href=“Many American Workers Are Underemployed and Underpaid - The New York Times”>Many American Workers Are Underemployed and Underpaid - The New York Times;