@JHS said:
As do some other Elites, of course. 
i HOPE no one is judging my character trajectory based on my 18 year old self.
18 year olds do dumb things. i’d challenge anyone to look back and really think about the momentary lapses in judgement we all have at that age. it would be a lie if there is any one person who can honestly say they were above the fold and their character at that age was impeccable.
these kids did a dumb-ish thing. it was in poor taste, no doubt about it.
the punishment did not fit the “crime”. maybe everyone would have been better served by having a discussion on exactly why this was unacceptable. maybe freshman seminar could have heavily focused on sensitivity training and this elusive “character” trait.
i dont deny Harvard the right to do what they did–its their marbles and they can take them home any time they feel like it. they really dont have to justify it either way. im fine with that.
i just think their response is disproportionate and i also think that even though names werent revealed, it should have stayed a private matter, not plastered all over the internet under the guise of a cautionary tale and the moral high road.
because those who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.
“it should have stayed a private matter, not plastered all over the internet under the guise of a cautionary tale and the moral high road.”
It’s not Harvard who is yapping about it. Per their usual procedure, Harvard’s response has basically been “no comment”. However, when you are dumb enough to exhibit such behavior in a online group of 100 or strangers, word does get out because someone is bound to talk.
Where’s the glass house here?
This wasn’t a momentary lapse in judgement. These students took the effort of creating and joining this “secret” group because they new it wasn’t kosher, they knew it was something inappropriate and unacceptable, but, heck, they did it anyway.
I am not sure that all the members of that group knew exactly what they were getting into when they joined. I read at least 2 quotes from former members of the group that said they joined and then when they saw what was being posted they got out.
It’s all water under the bridge at this point, but there were some students who had the sense to say “I want no part of this.” I would really throw the book at the person(s) who got the ball rolling by the starting the group in the first place. Those students are going to be a negative influence on a college community.
Agreed but since only 10 had their admissions rescinded, the vast majority who may not have known “exactly what they were getting into when they joined” aren’t being affected by this.
Those incoming students who let themselves be quoted in the articles - another dumb move IMO. I guess everyone wants their 15 minutes. 8-|
I agree.
Or, if Harvard wanted to go a step further, they could have required these students to defer their admission for a year in addition to completing some training in general sensitivity and responsible use of social media. This would have added some embarrassment and inconvenience to the punishment and helped to convey the message that Harvard takes this sort of thing seriously, but it would not have had lifelong consequences.
When he was 20, the UK’s Prince Harry did something similarly offensive and outrageous – he showed up at a costume party in a Nazi uniform. There were short-term consequences, including the need for a public apology. But nobody took away Harry’s place in the line of succession to the throne or permanently barred him from representing the royal family in public. And it’s a good thing they didn’t because Harry has grown up to be one of the royal family’s greatest assets.
My point is that Harry grew up. And these kids will, too.
Competing to post the most outrageously offensive thing you can think of on social media – or wearing an outrageously offensive costume to a party – are the sorts of things late adolescents do. They’re not the end of the world.
“they could have required these students to defer their admission for a year”
I don’t see this as much of a deterrent or punishment. My kids CHOSE to defer a year. 
I don’t think they should simply be deferred. If they really believe they can add something to the Harvard community then they take the year off and apply again like everyone else. They can then try and convince admissions that they have done some soul searching and are better people.
Now chances are since all 10 were admitted early a majority of them were fulfilling some institutional need or priority. Those needs and priorities change from year to year so this mistake may have cost them.
To be accurate, the original Stan Lee quote from Amazing Fantasy #15 is “With great power there must also come — great responsibility!” Although, if one digs deeper, one will find that Voltaire, among others, said it earlier.
Agreed, although there are no varying degrees of recission. Regardless, the other 9 or so are not without blame. At best they were, IMO, lemmings on a cliff. With almost 40K applicants, I can’t see how, in hindsight at least, one could argue that they were amongst the best 1660+ students to be part of Harvard’s Class of 2021.
It’s simply not true that everyone does “dumb” things like this at age 18. Most people I know don’t say vile things like what was posted by these kids, at age 18 or any age.
As others have said, the kids will get a second chance. They have ample opportunity to attend other colleges. Instead of getting their favorite flavor of ice cream, they have to choose another one from thousands of other very good choices.
On the other hand, Harvard has no way of distinguishing whether this was an adolescent expression, or a radical or sinister impulse that could result in violent/criminal outcomes for the campus community and a legal liability for them. These memes were not child’s play. Theoretically, if one of the 10 turned out to be the next campus shooter or serial rapist, Harvard would not have a leg to stand on. Harvard has enough great candidates on its wait list to not take the risk. Why would they, and what right do we have to insist they do?
As for parents, would you feel safe if you knew your child was assigned to room with the fellow/gal who posted the meme about being sexually aroused by child abuse or the holocaust? I would not. Nor would I feel comfortable with my kid rooming with anyone who goes out of their way to express views on the radical/social/religious/racial fringe.
Well, one glass house is that plenty of ADULTS who should know better have made quite nasty comments on this very forum. Some of us have been victims of attacks, some have been perpetrators, and some of us have been both. And no doubt some CC adults have created their own “secret” groups branching off of of this platform, and one might question why and wonder what things were said.
Most kids act very different around their parents or their parent’s friends than they do around other teenagers. How they act around other teenagers IRL may be very different from how they act on social media, especially when they think they may be anonymous.
Now, the armchair psychoanalyzing has completely jumped the shark. It’s ridiculous to jump from a meme to assuming felony behavior. If it’s too much risk for Harvard to take, should it be too much risk for any university to take? No university wants a likely school shooter on their premises, no matter what else they bring to the class. If we took this to its logical conclusion, we might conclude the student shouldn’t be allowed to enroll in any college in the country.
If anyone thought colleges should be responsible for the Minority Report task of predicting which students are likely to become school shooters, Harvard could require that a Harvard psychiatrist evaluate all accepted students for their risk to the community.
Agree that this behavior is not particular to students. How about the horrendous comments posted to the Fox News site when they ran the story on the elder Obama daughter’s plan to attend Harvard? You couldn’t get any uglier than those comments. Fox couldn’t remove them fast enough – they just kept coming.
And as I posted upthread we have been discussing this sort of thing for years on this forum. There are students on most college campuses engaging in similar conduct as we post. Maybe this will make some of them stop and think first.
I don’t know that most kids know or care what goes on at Harvard. Sure parents can caution their kids, monitor their kids as best they can, but the problem with the young mind is that it often thinks “not me.” And as HarvestMoon1 points out people feel “inconspicuous” when posting on social media, often without having to reveal their identities. Now the adults jumping the shark on this thread just make me shake my head. I highly doubt any of the memes were put up by sinister, soon to be shooters or anything like that. Good grief. And as far as worrying about a freshman rooming with someone with a penchant for vile, tasteless memes, well you might never know…and there are far worse things to be worried about with a freshman heading off to college.
First of all, most 18 year olds don’t do dumb things which rise to this level.
Second, making fun of marginalized groups and genocidal events like the Holocaust is well beyond merely doing “dumb things”.
Apples and durians. First, being a member of the royal family and in the line of succession because one was born into it is very different than applying for admission to a respectable/elite college or institution.
Well…unless one wants to turn back the clock to the days when admission to Ivy/peer private elite colleges were regarded as a birthright by scions from well-to-do WASP families as it was up until sometime in the mid-1960’s. And even then, one still has to apply in some form…rather than have it automatically bestowed upon birth.
Also, revoking a member of the British royal family’s line in the succession requires following a series of complex legal procedures/traditions requiring the parliament and the British royal family. It’s not as simple as QEII ordering it be so.
And for the record, I find this example to actually be worse precisely because he came from a very privileged background(royalty), the fact many British veterans fought against the Nazis with many paying the ultimate price, the fact there were Nazi sympathizers in the British Royal family*, and he did it at 20 vs 18.
- Duke and Duchess of Windsor, Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, etc.
I have no idea what those 10 rescinded students are capable of, and neither does anyone else. The point is, there is no reliable way to tell apart “18 year-olds doing dumb things” from would-be child rapists, if the memes are identical, or otherwise equally vile in content. These types of memes come from a sick mind. I don’t think the school, responsible for the safety of the campus community, should take the risk. People disagree.
If my child dialed home to say her roomie is going out of her way to post disturbing material on social media, whilst laughing it up with others who are also going out of their way to post equally disturbing content – I would worry. I would second-guess the decision to enroll. Physical safety is one of the things I worry about, not gonna lie.
@GFG, Anyone who posts here can expect both positive and negative feedback. I’ve seen very few “nasty comments” on this forum, probably because it’s so tightly moderated.
Some of this conversation reminds me of other conversations I have listened to (and internally shaken my head at) while at parties or other social gatherings. I have heard (from otherwise seemingly very ‘nice’ people) about how, “Everyone cheats on their taxes” or “It isn’t such a big deal to have an affair” and other such comments that are presented as throwaway asides to the bigger conversations taking place.
I will admit that I used to be shocked & horrified when I heard these things. Then I spent a lot of time being judgmental. Now, those comments just make me sad. Because while the people who say those things really seem to believe that - it comes from being part of a social group within which those actions or beliefs are acceptable.
There are lots of people who, in fact, don’t cheat on their taxes, don’t have affairs, don’t use racial or sexist slurs (in public or private). There are lots of 18 year olds who don’t drink alcohol, aren’t having sexual relationships and would not post the offensive memes talked about in this thread.
At my age, I just try to remember who said what offensive idea (cheating/lying are bright line character defects for me) and not invite them to the next event I host. Life is too short to willingly socialize with people who hold beliefs which are deeply offensive to me. It sounds like Harvard made that same decision. Sometimes I wonder if many people forgot that deciding someone is unacceptable is the consequence to unacceptable behavior. And each one of us (and each institution) does get to decide where the unacceptable line in the sand is.
I hope these young adults are able to move beyond these events, learn something constructive from the situation and grow up. They must all be very smart and accomplished men and women, and this event does not need to define the rest of their lives…nor even the rest of this year. Where they go from here, and what choices they make are up to them. I wish them well.
Yes, it’s not tolerated here. And if it’s a brand new user who posts something objectionable, I ban him or her right off the bat. I would give a long-time user a little more leeway. I figure if somebody signs up on the site and immediately is a jerk, he or she will only cause trouble long-term and is not worth the trouble.
And for those who say, “But I’ve seen people get away with a lot of nasty stuff!” please look at your posting history and see how many posts you’ve reported. And if you have reported them, what was the outcome? We take reports very seriously.