Exactly, @maya54. The reason I cited Rule 16B(2) has nothing to do with the subject matter of that Section. It has to do with United’s use of the two terms separately, which would very likely lead a court to rule that they mean two different things. Especially under the principle that contract terms have the same meaning throughout the contract unless otherwise defined. Speaking as someone who also has more than 30 years of experience in commercial contract litigation!
Airlines used to keep passengers sitting on the tarmac for hours without food, water, or hvac while waiting for a takeoff window when takeoffs were backed up. The government cracked down on that and there haven’t been any complaints about skyrocketing fares as a result. There was also a crackdown on on-time performance without too much impact on fares.
So while there would probably be some impact on ticket prices from regulations affecting IDB, past experience suggests it wouldn’t be too significant.
It has also gone viral in the rest of the Sinosphere(Taiwan, HK, Singapore, etc).
And that outrage is likely to be amplified due to the fact the assaulted individual was an elderly person(Assaulting the elderly tend to be taken even far less kindly in Confucian influenced cultures) and an MD.
Already read several comments in news publications and forums from those societies that they’re not going to book flights with airlines which condone the beating of someone who could be their elderly grandparents/great-aunts/great-uncles.
There were so many options if United had been a bit creative and compassionate. United could have offered $1000 and a limo ride to Louisville that night and I am sure that passengers would have agreed to the plan. They just wanted to get home… that is why they purchased the airplane ticket in the first place. Even better, just drive the 4 airline employees to Louisville.
Given the number of Chinese airline ads touting their Dreamliners posted at the Chinatown tunnel station here in my city, United has an uphill battle already breaking into that market… This morass is going to hurt them. Amazing how it takes one idiot decision-making employee to bring huge headaches for the business.
And United’s CEO is doubling down:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-united-procedures-remove-passenger-46704780
Posted by several FB friends who are all calling for a boycott.
What’s more interesting is that they span the political spectrum. Beating up elderly passengers minding their own business and rightfully demanding what they’ve paid for/were promised doesn’t tend to be regarded well by most.
One older HS alum friend also posted a meme going around the web with the following statement:
“If we cannot beat our competitors, we beat our customers.”
I don’t care if the passenger was a scumbag or a Nobel Prize winner. Doesn’t matter at all. United’s behavior was reprehensible, their CEO’s statement was doublespeak, and the victim shaming today is more of the same. They just keep digging their hole deeper and deeper.
The CEO needs to shut up!! He’s making things worse!
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There were so many options if United had been a bit creative and compassionate. United could have offered $1000 and a limo ride to Louisville that night and <<<
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Absolutely! I find it hard to believe that there would have been no-takers if the vouchers would have been upped to $1k each, maybe with a 1st Class upgrade or free baggage vouchers or whatever! Get creative!!! Seriously, offer a packet of 20 free bag vouchers! Many would like that!..and it guarantees that the people will fly more on that airline.
Seriously, airlines can get creative and come up with some (cheap for them) freebies to offer…free bags, free onflight meals, free wine/mixed drinks, along with the vouchers.
The algorithm method should only be used for LAST RESORT after first giving away the store!
The problem with the algorithm method is that it doesn’t take into account people’s private needs. Someone may not have their meds for another day, someone might be mentally ill and can’t handle this change, someone might be going to their child/parent who is on death’s door.
I’m guessing that the algorithm excludes kids, but if it chooses someone who has kids on plane, they all would have to get off.
Yup. $800 and an overnight in a fleabag hotel plus getting up at 5am to catch the first flight out the next morning would’ve been a non-starter for me (can you tell I’m speaking from experience?). But $800 plus an uber-black ride getting me to my front door only a few hours later than the original flight would’ve caught my attention.
So you didn’t like my Mrs. Lincoln bit? Let me ask you differently. When you said:
Suppose you invested $10,000 in United in 1997. How much would your investment be worth today?
^^^
Certainly! Not airline should be putting any bumped passenger in a crappy motel…the options should be Marriotts, Hiltons, etc.
@DonnaL – yes your reasoning makes sense to me but I guess I am just not as sure that the underlying request to de-board would be found to be invalid. While the article I read was not very specific it did say a passenger can be IDB’d even after they are seated so long as the plane is still at the gate. Although I agree that the semantics of that situation are contradictory. I have no idea if emergency situations can extend the technical timing for passengers to be ticketed and confirmed putting the flight into an “overbooked” status. But courts often look beyond the terms of a contract and consider other circumstances.
4 Republic Airline crew members allegedly needed seats on Flight 3411 so they could make a flight in Louisville in order to prevent another United flight from being cancelled. I suppose the outcome would turn on whether or not a judge would view that last minute scenario as sufficient to require an IDB of 4 other passengers. But this will obviously settle quite quickly as no matter what the legalities are of the request to de-board, excessive force was clearly used on this passenger.
I think United’s handling of this was pretty outrageous and I have nothing but sympathy for this passenger. But personally I would not allow a situation to escalate to where I was being dragged off a plane. I guess I would rather cry “uncle” before physical force was involved, and then employ whatever legal remedies I had after the fact. His wife was on the plane and as far as I know was not asked to de-board – could she not have requested that he be given her seat so he could get home for his scheduled patients?
The algorithm indeed favors folks with disabilities (known to the airline) and unaccompanied minors, as it is stated somewhere in the linked United docs.
It appears that unaccompanied minors would be excluded if UA determines it would cause a hardship, but other than that it looks like kids are fair game:
The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
They could have offered immediate upgrade to high FF program status for year so in future you are unlikely to be bumped, get free baggage etc… plus the 800. People would probably have leapt at that
It looks like it is costing their shareholders $600 million. Maybe United will think about offering another $500 next time.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2017/04/11/united-stock-falls/100325694/
Agree, maya. I would go for that offer: a year of chichi status and the $. Would have been an inexpensive way to keep someone happy and earn their future business!
Beats me. United merged with Continental in 2006, the stock price data easily available doesn’t go back past that.
Since the merger it has roughly doubled, which in 11 years is about a 6.5% annual return.
After seeing the video, I’m also a bit surprised that no one, after seeing this man being dragged down the aisle, said “Stop, I’ll go. I’ll give up my seat rather than seeing this man be injured any further”.
I agree ^^^ And when he gets back on, no one goes up to him to comfort him.