Seriously, when people are on planes, they’re going to have their cameras at the ready.
Airlines…take note.
In the US, we do have a proud tradition of peaceful protest and civil disobedience. Sitting calmly and refusing to leave falls into that category (an eyewitness says the doctor was calm and rational to the crew). It’s certainly not something I would choose to do since I’m a wimp, but I certainly recognize the long tradition in this country of refusing to follow a perceived unjust order.
There was another famous person in history who refused to give up her seat, and that lead to change. On a smaller scale locally there was a veteran with a service dog who refused to leave a store when the owner objected to the dog. That lead to the owner being educated on the law. There were a bunch of people illegally camping out and refusing orders to leave the site of a certain pipeline. Come on now, we’re Americans. We protest and disobey. That’s kinda what we do :))
Right. It occurred to me after my last post that when I was much younger and traveling in some communist countries that I never ever questioned authority figures. I did not want to take a chance what could happen. I have never felt that way in my own country.
Well, I’m not going to believe the internet and I haven’t studied the contract. Sorry if I am reluctant to rely on your interpretation at this point. We all agree to a lot of contractual terms that we find completely objectionable. I wasn’t allowed to swim Masters swimming without signing a release of USS that would allow them to shoot me on the starting blocks!
“NOW Munoz says the incident was “truly horrific.” Yeah, sure. He didn’t think it was horrific yesterday; he thought his employees actions were justified, and he defended them. Now that United has lost a billion dollars in stock valuation, that’s horrific.”
If at first you don’t succeed, try, try, try again. 
United needs to drop the policy of stopping incentives at $1000. It looks like the next flight may have not left until at least 14 hours later. $800 for 14 hours of your time is a paltry sum.
Part of this is an escalation in bullying by airline personnel who have more power than ever to evict “unruly” passengers. Or 10 year olds wearing tights. Or whomever they choose.
And some police, who feel emboldened to assist the bullying initiated by airline people.
I thought we checked many of our civil liberties at the door the minute we get into airport territory. I’m happy to see renewed zeal for them.
United handled it terribly, bottom line.
Do you know what would happen to me had I refused to get off a flight when told to, and when confronted by security also refused, and was drug off? If I was on a company paid ticket, I would likely be fired, as I am considered to be representing the company (even out of uniform). There would be a company wide bulletin circulated about embarrassing the company, and telling everyone that of course we must comply with flight crew and security demands. The aviation threads would be posting jokes about me nonstop.
It is sad that this gentleman was injured by airport security (I am assuming they are the ones who caused his injuries), and they should definitely figure out ways to remove people without hurting them. If they could take things slower, it is likely they could prevent injury, perhaps spend more time talking and explaining, instead of just grabbing someone.
However, making this gentleman into a hero, a Rosa Parks sort of guy for refusing to comply, is just plain wrong. It’s like dealing with the police. You DO WHAT THE GUY WITH THE GUN TELLS YOU. You don’t fight, yell, flail, resist, refuse to do as instructed. I don’t understand why anyone would think doing otherwise is a smart or brave thing to do. That is how people get shot, injured, arrested. It doesn’t matter if it’s not fair, you don’t like it, you don’t wanna. I can’t believe that any rational person thinks it’s just fine and rational not to comply with aircraft security.
@busdriver11 - your point of view is good and pertinent to read.
"NOW Munoz says the incident was “truly horrific.”
Crocodile tears.
1. He wasn't an airline employee, but a passenger who was rightfully demanding the service he paid for.
2. The whole incident could have been prevented if United's management had planned for contingencies to the point they didn't need to bump off paying passengers so their aircrew could arrive at the airport where they needed to be on time.
3. Since this whole incident was rooted in United management's crappy planning, it's wrong for them to attempt foisting the negative fallout of it on paying passengers who had nothing to do with it....including the victim.
4. From the interviews/comments I've seen online from East Asian newsmedia from those who served as police officers or military police personnel as part of their national service, all were aghast at the amount of force security used on the elderly man. Several felt it was a sign the police officer concerned was poorly trained in non-violent restraining techniques and/or drunk on power. And one of those societies is a full multi-party democracy(ROC(Taiwan)).
Busdriver- thank you for your reasonable post and for being one of the few who actually knows something about these situations.
BD: I have appreciated reading all your insider comments here, even if I don’t agree. It does seem to me different if you, as an airline employee were to object than if I did so. If I was employed, maybe my employer would have the right to fire me. However, I just can’t imagine the airline would send security to remove me.
I wanted to add something a little off topic. People were talking up thread about not wanting to accept the airline’s hotel offerings when bumped. Last year I got bumped and walked in the door of a distinctly downscale hotel. I was just standing there looking around when one of the flight attendants from my flight came in and I thought, “okay, this is where the crew stays. It can’t be that bad.” She recognized me too and said hi and I asked her if the hotel had a bar. She explained it was downstairs and suggested I come join her as soon as I stashed my bag. She and the rest of the crew invited me to join them at the bar for drinks and dinner and it was a really lovely evening. They went above and beyond.
Correction: not bumped but re-routed due to bad weather and then grounded.
Or we stand up to illegitimate authoritarian bullying. I usually comply, because I’m pretty gutless, but I admire people who stand up for their rights, because they’re standing up for mine, too.
I don’t understand people who defend police brutality on the grounds that the person could have avoided it… by complying with illegitimate orders, or by being white, or by being lucky enough not to be there, or by some other equally fallacious method.
People will get shot, beaten or arrested by authoritarian thugs unless we stand up to authoritarian thugs.
On the other hand, nothing ever got changed by complying meekly and docilely with authority figures.
Maybe we need some protests in order to get airlines to treat passengers as humans instead of cargo.
I’m dreading my “Untied” Airlines flights next month.
This is a business problem. Customers don’t want to get involved in a company’s business problems. It’s none of our concern. United should have resolved this by getting the crew to the next location on a private jet, if necessary, but to inflict the results of their poor planning and stupidity on its customers is just compounding the problem. The CEO and the rest of upper management need to go.
"NOW Munoz says the incident was “truly horrific.”
Right…
He’s now horrified that he’ll be ordered to give up his seat on the board.
When I use a company paid ticket to get to/from work, all the airline that I’m flying with knows is that I’m a paying passenger. They do not know that I’m an airline employee, or anything about me, they treat me like everyone else. I am also a passenger who deserves the service that I (or my company) paid for. Being an employee of a different airline does not enable them to treat me differently, however, my company considers me to be a representative of that company at all times, even on my time off. If I do something crazy that gets me in the news (on my time off, out of uniform), I can still be disciplined. I am sure this is the same for many companies, you can’t do whatever you want, whenever you want, if it reflects poorly upon the company.
@MomofWildChild Perhaps if you haven’t studied the contract you shouldn’t opine so confidently on what it provides?