Just so you know, it is not United (or its employees) that physically removes the passenger if they are not cooperative, it is the airport security that does it. Having been in Chicago when they removed a passenger who was drunk they were none to nice about it. Slammed his head into the bulkhead as he resisted arrest. Don’t know what happened here but imagine if you were tasked to physically pull someone off the plane and they resist, not a job I would want.
Youdontsay’s link says United’s own policy would be to go to the next name on the list rather than forcibly remove someone from a seat.
The FAA keeps track of “unruly pax”:
https://www.faa.gov/data_research/passengers_cargo/unruly_passengers/
This has been posted earlier:
http://fortune.com/2016/05/11/airlines-kicked-off-passengers-rights/
“The only reason they even offer passengers compensation for getting bumped is that there are laws governing that, the same way that now if you get stuck on a plane on a runway for more than X hours, they have to compensate you (I wonder how long those rules are going to last, last I heard the airline industry has been pressuring congress to get rid of those rules).”
Very good point in the current political landscape!
Yes, this was airport security not airline personnel. When a passenger is acting illogically and uncooperatively, regardless of their point having some merit, it just isn’t looked upon well in our current environment. Just like with a police officer on the street, you cooperate and complain later. You don’t resist.
Seems like we had a thread on that before…
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1854265-are-at-risk-students-bunnies-to-be-drowned-p1.html
"Hobart said United tries to come up with a reasonable compensation offer, but “there comes a point where you’re not going to get volunteers.”
This is nonsense. They were not at a point where they weren’t going to get volunteers-- they were merely at a point where they needed to offer more money. They could have easily gotten volunteers, but instead they called security to bash the guy’s head against the armrest.
Here, by the way, is United’s Contract of Carriage: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx
Section 25 is a long section on when United may deny boarding. But Section 25 does not apply, because the guy was not denied boarding. We must turn instead to Section 21, Refusal of Transport, which details the reasons United may remove someone from the aircraft. None of them apply. There is no rule there that says if United is trying to get volunteers, but is too cheap to offer enough money for someone to volunteer, then they may choose someone who has done nothing wrong and drag them off the plane.
Thank you for looking that up.
Recently I’ve seen regular headlines about disruptive passengers removed from planes amid cheers or clapping. That didn’t happen here.
I know video or a news report may not tell a “true” story.
In this case I can’t find any witnesses who say this man was fairly treated. Witnesses seem very upset. At least so far.
When I’ve volunteered to get bumped, I’ve gotten good perks. A big voucher or free flight anywhere in the U. S., hotel, first class seat on the next flight and meals. It’s hard to believe that if United had sweetened the deal, they couldn’t have gotten volunteers.
Second, there are other airlines that fly between Chicago and Louisville. They could have tried to put this guy on another airline that wouldn’t have delayed him.
Third, I don’t understand why the staff isn’t in place such that they don’t have to bump people off planes. If they need to fly non-rev people on that flight then they need to sell fewer seats.
[QUOTE=""]
Still wondering how the heck he got back on the plane to run down the aisle.<<<
[/QUOTE]
I’m thinking the rest of the security detail told the 'head smasher and dragging perp," Dude did you see all the cell phone videos? Then nobody wanted to do anything.
I’m okay with taking a later flight, but a night in a possibly nasty hotel? No, not at all. That would require big $$$.
@tating:
I agree, and quite honestly the answer to this is both laziness and arrogance, rather than develop better systems to maintain planes flying at full capacity while taking into account both no shows and when they have non flying passengers, they have a system where they overbook and assume they can just tell people to get off the plane IMO. When you have an industry where customer service basically means nothing they don’t have the find better ways to handle things, so they don’t. It is kind of like the idiots running Wells Fargo who came up with an ‘incentive’ scheme that was almost an invitation for employees to cheat to attain them and then were shocked at the public outrage when it was discovered what happened, they kind of figured no one would care, the same way people still bank with them when Wells Fargo is notorious for all the fees and such they hit their customers with and people grin and bear it.
As far as security goes, that is no big surprise, they are nasty to people who have done basically nothing, I can just imagine what they do to someone who they think is out of line.
Possibly some crew member(s) in Louisville got sick or injured or exceeded hours due to delays or otherwise unavailable without advance notice. Since Louisville is not a United hub (unlike Chicago O’Hare), it is less likely to have reserve crew members available for substitution.
However, it would have made more sense to keep raising the offer until they got enough VDBs, rather than doing IDB on someone already on the plane.
I think some still don’t realize the changes that happened after 9/11. You do not have an absolute right to travel on an airplane. They can remove you because you are acting suspiciously, oddly, irrationally, if there is some concern by the flight crew or passengers. Sometimes when you hear the details it sounds very wrong, but as more details are added the picture becomes more clear. A person who refuses to get off an airplane and has to be dragged off when they are involuntarily bumped…that is irrational, there is something strange going on, and I would be wondering what the heck is happening with him.
The police should be very careful not to injure someone. And I think they should spend a couple of minutes talking to the guy first before just grabbing him (if they didn’t). But why would they actually have to physically remove someone like that? And as a passenger, if I saw this happening, unless I was going on the last flight to work or something very important, I think I’d quickly volunteer to give up my seat.
This sounds like one of those situations where people refuse to comply with the police and end up getting hurt. I can almost understand it when people are alone and fearful of the police, but not in this situation. It will be interesting to see what happens when the details come out.
One other detail: The flight UA 3411 was actually operated by a regional subcontractor Republic Airlines under the name United Express (note: other United Express flights may be operated by different regional subcontractors). Obviously, United has to take responsibility for its subcontractor, since the flight is branded with its name, but the fact that there is a different operating airline may complicate things or increase the chance for poor decision making or other errors.
^good point. Having flown United express and other regional flights of major carriers, you aren’t exactly talking big league airlines, they operate even more close to the bone then the big boys do.
None of which obtained in this case.
IDB = involuntary denial of boarding. You can’t deny boarding to someone on a plane. They have already boarded.
I see nothing irrational about refusing to relinquish something I’ve paid for.
A relative of mine was thrown off a United flight for having the temerity to ask the flight attendant to do something about a broken overhead speaker that was literally causing everyone in the vicinity to have to hold their hands over their ears. The surrounding passengers were so angry that not only did they speak up and say “no, no” when it was happening but a number of them pressed their business cards on his traveling companion and said they would be witnesses if he chose to sue or file a complaint.
They don’t fly United any more, needless to say.
Those lousy cheapskates needed to offer more money.
I can certainly imagine refusing to leave and calling my attorney from my seat… just as some witnesses report happened. I would have left if my attorney advised it.