United Airlines Demonstrates its Contempt for Customers

honestly, as soon as the passenger refused to cooperate and became obstinate, he made himself a flight risk on that plane. If he wouldn’t listen to the flight crew and leave the plane when asked, who is to say he would be amenable to following crew directions that might have been needed in an emergency? It’s just a risk that can’t be taken. Just like a drunk or argumentative passenger. The airline could have handled it differently so it didn’t reach that point, yes, but once the passenger chose to behave the way her did, he really limited his options.

What do they teach kindergartners? Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Don’t let these kind of public messes stop you from flying. If this is the major news to worry about with aviation, we’re doing good. Air travel is safer than it ever has been, and that is truly what matters. You can avoid misery by booking flights with plenty of backups, direct when possible, major carriers as opposed to commuter airlines. It’s really no big deal. Just don’t show up at the last minute, give yourself plenty of time, and you can prevent most inconveniences.

And if for some reason you are requested to leave the airplane, don’t refuse, freeze up and have to be dragged off. Just go. I have full confidence that you will be fine! And if you are afraid of flying, a good glass of wine or two takes the edge off. :smiley:

My kids, H and I have flown for decades. Between us we have a ton of miles. This type of incident is truly unusual and disturbing and fortunately VERY RARE. I know that none of my family members have ever witnessed anything like this incident ever in all our air travel. We generally get on the plane and go from point A to point B, without incident.

If I could I would vow to never fly United Airlines again, but I can’t make that vow because I already made it years ago - not because I saw them drag somebody off the plane but simply for being a lousy airline. Flying on United was unpleasant and there was an instance where I knew they were lying to me (over why a flight was cancelled).

So United has been doing without any revenue from me for about ten years now. Delta has gotten most of that business instead. This latest caper does nothing to convince me to give United another chance.

Isn’t there some kind of established pecking order for circumstances like this? If you obtain your ticket through a mileage program I am pretty sure that you will be the first to be “involuntarily bumped” if they need a seat. Thought they started with the lowest level mileage members if they can get no volunteers.

Most airlines will give you lounge access, meal vouchers and pay for an overnight stay in an airport hotel if you are “involuntarily bumped.” Halfway down this link are the rules that govern “involuntary bumping”:

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

@TomSrOfBoston


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Remember when UAL's motto was "Fly the friendly skies"? <<

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yeah now they have to come up with something new.

how about, “Try our friendly service – it will knock you out! And then drag your bleeding unconscious body out of your seat, down the aisle and off the plane!”

There is definitely an established pecking order, I doubt it would ever be random. Based upon the airline, I’m guessing frequent flier ticket, mileage ticket or not, cost of ticket, and last person to check in, just to name a few. No doubt a complicated computer program, however, who knows if they did just pick someone at random. I don’t know that a commuter airline would follow the same rules as the major that they connect with.

While I didn’t like the initial actions of the passenger, I also think the airline rules need to be occasionally reviewed, and sometimes it only comes to the forefront after incidents like these. I know they are all trying to keep costs reasonable to complete, but I’ve found United to be one of the worst. They were one of the first of the major airlines trying to compete with the discount airlines by offering the lowest value (no seat assignment, no carry-ons, no changes even with a fee), WITHOUT matching the discount fares. When first offered, you didn’t discover their policy until well into the booking process. We once booked a United ticket, and discovered a computer error that could not be corrected within the 24 hour period due to a glitch. They admitted it, but still tried to deny us a refund because it took longer than the 24 hours! Had to argue and keep asking for the next level before they finally gave in. Not acceptable customer service.
There are also ways other ways to avoid overbooking. Leave one or two empty seats and more readily accept standby’s at lower fares (perhaps 1/2- ¾ fare, similar to how theatre tickets are offered to fill empty seats), offer better compensation to entice volunteers. Just because the rules say they can bump involuntarily, doesn’t mean we should accept that practice. Perhaps the rules need to change.

Another eyewitness says a passenger offered to deplane, for $1600. Instead the airline called the goons.

Although I really think they should have offered more money. At some point the pilot should have announced over the PA system, “Hey folks, $800 is our best and final offer and we can’t leave until we get one more person off the plane so we are just going to sit her until someone volunteers to get off the plane.” I’m sure after they sat there for a few minutes someone would have volunteered.

Edit to add I’m so glad I took AmTrak to OU this past weekend! I could walk around, no one riffled through my luggage, and I could enjoy the scenery.

I am going to post again that the officer responsible has been placed on leave, and his superiors have said this is not their policy. They do not condone his behavior.

The folks in charge of removing passengers say they messed up here.

^^Yeah, 3scoutsmom, I’m kind of surprised they didn’t. I’ve had that happen to me on a flight, people got up and volunteered. I was ready to, though it would have put me in a bind.

We have been in a flight when they made an announcement like that (needed volunteer to take next flight for compensation) and gotten more volunteers than needed.

The aviation industry expert on CBS News basically said United was incredibly inept as they could have just upped the ante and that someone would have eventually volunteered for more money. He said Delta is a master at playing that game; hence, their #2 ranking in customer satisfaction behind Alaska Air. The same news segment interviewed a woman who writes about travel for Fortune magazine and she and her family were cancelled from their spring break trip over the weekend, but they got $11,000 in compensation. The negative publicity that this has caused for United is beyond measure financially. Stupid, stupid, stupid way to handle this in a day where everyone with a phone is a citizen journalist.

That was so upsetting to watch…unreal that it escalated to the point that it did

I strongly agree with Cardinal Fang that United’s Contract of Carriage (see https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx) did not give United the legal right to have security or the police forcibly remove someone from the plane in these circumstances.

Throughout the contract, denial of boarding is referred to separately from removal from the aircraft (see, e.g., Rule 16B(2)); they are two separate terms and the former does not include the latter. Therefore, the provisions of Rule 25 regarding denial of boarding in cases of overbooking are irrelevant — even leaving aside the question of whether this situation actually came within the contract’s definition of an “Oversold Flight” (see Rule 1)* — and do not apply to removal from the aircraft. Removal from the aircraft is governed by Rule 21, which sets forth an exclusive list of grounds for which United has “the right to refuse to transport or . . . the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger.” There is nothing in that list authorizing involuntary removal from the aircraft in these circumstances, specifically, for refusing to volunteer to vacate the plane in cases of overbooking (assuming this situation qualified as such).

Some people seem to be arguing that United was justified in removing this man pursuant to Rule 21H(2), which provides for removal from the plane of “Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives.”

But I see that as essentially a circular argument, since it assumes that the orders he failed to comply with were valid in the first place. If they weren’t justified in the first place under the contract in demanding that he leave the plane — in other words, if their underlying reason for requiring him to leave was invalid — then they can’t manufacture a valid reason for removing him, and turn an invalid reason into a valid one, simply by giving him an invalid instruction and ejecting him for refusing to obey it! Here’s an analogy: Obviously, as a common carrier and under applicable law (as well as the Contract of Carriage itself), United would not have had the right to forcibly remove this man from the plane on grounds of his race, i.e., that he was Asian. Directing him to get off the plane because of his race and then having him forcibly dragged off for refusing to do so would clearly not provide legal justification for his removal on the alleged ground of refusing to obey the crew’s directives! This situation is equivalent.

And, apart from everything else, even if there were an ambiguity in the meaning of the contract terms (such as “boarding” and “oversold flight”) it should be construed against the drafter, i.e., United.

  • The term "Oversold Flight" means "a flight where there are more Passengers holding valid confirmed Tickets that check-in for the flight within the prescribed check-in time than there are available seats." Does the situation of United's deciding after the fact -- long after the "prescribed check-in time" had expired -- that it had to accommodate it own employees so they could make another flight come within this definition? I have my doubts.

Separately, I find the reflexive suggestions that this man was “drunk,” or “overreacting to what happened,” or that this is “fake news,” both astonishing and reprehensible.

I think it looks like false arrest. They put their hands on him and moved him off the plane and injured him in the process. It doesn’t matter what his reason was for refusing to give up his seat. If he wasn’t committing a crime they had no right to put their hands on him. If those were real police they are in trouble. If they were just airline employees it’s assault and possibly abduction. I hope he contacts an attorney and pursues this. I haven’t read all the comments here but I can’t imagine anyone thinks this was justified.

United’s incompetent CEO keeps digging: http://www.mediaite.com/online/our-agents-were-left-with-no-choice-united-ceo-sends-staff-email-about-deplaning-incident/

Apparently he didn’t think we hated him enough after the first message, so he had to compound the insult.

However, you really don’t know what exactly happened, except from what a few passengers said, and a video with a short snapshot. As these stories often go, the details come out and can be completely different than what is assumed. On any day, in any universe, could you see yourself being dragged out like that? I think you have far too much dignity.

I also wonder if he understood what he was being told to do, if there was a language or mental impairment. I don’t think speculating is reprehensible. There is plenty of speculation about the airline, and blaming them for heavy handed security procedures that they have nothing to do with.

I can’t believe I’m actually defending Republic Airlines…
Time to go to work. Hopefully nobody will be dragging me off an airplane today, but if there’s no coffee onboard, they just might have to. :open_mouth:

Well, maybe United will end up with a new CEO–that could be a plus.