@sbdad12 You’re correct, for the record, my association with the school is 2 years. My kid just finished her sophomore year last night at 9 PM. But your criticism of UMich and it’s OOS financial aid, at least to me, is becoming overly redundant. As they say, it’s a free country.
UNC and UT have higher OOS selectivity than UMich, because they severely limit OOS admissions, which UMich doesn’t. And UMich is ranked higher than all of them: Whisky, UNC and Texas.
Also, UMich gets very little money from the State of Michigan. So, any possible cuts from the legislature would not hurt UMich in nearly the same way as what has happened to Wisconsin. In fact Wisconsin’s rank has fallen and UMich has risen. If you read that article I linked, Wisconsin departments are having a tough time. I think they mentioned the history department going downhill, as an example.
I also googled funding cuts to UMich and found nothing, but if the State is reducing the small amount of funding, below the inflation rate, I highly doubt it will have any impact on UMich.
It’s totally fine to be upset at your school. Please proceed. ?
Since an admitted student day back in March of 2018, I’ve been able to see first hand the dorms, the dining halls, move in/move out, IM building, a bunch of other school buildings and I’ve been able to attend many lectures of my kid’s professors, both in person and now online this semester. I saw my kid taking finals online just this week. I’m more than impressed with UMich and it’s almost seamless transition to online learning since Covid 19. IMO, it’s worth every extra penny that I’m spending. It’s all been first class for me and my kid in the last two years.
And my kid and her LSA advisor are actually good friends now. They actually talk and text often when no advising is needed.
I think I’m more than qualified to speak on behalf of a wonderful school; which my kid thinks is the best university in the world. BTW, QS has it as the best public university in the world. Anyway, while we’re flashing qualifications, I thought I’d flash my CURRENT qualifications.
Edit: One negative. Harbaugh can’t recruit the amount of 5-star football players that Ryan Day and OSU does. ?
Actually, I don’t believe that is the case. There are still a lot of opportunities for people from lower income to attend college. You have Pell Grants and substantial financial aid, work study, etc if you get admitted to an in state school and private schools. I still believe that exists, maybe better than ever. At Stanford, for example, if your family makes below $125K, you go tuition free. If it’s under $65K, you go tuition and room and board free. Upper income students have no issues.
But the cutoffs for financial aid for middle and upper middle income families is so low at many places that it’s just not financially viable. $65K is fine in Michigan, but a family making $65K in LA or NY is lower middle class. Try sending your kid OOS for $70K/year ($5,833/month) when your take home pay off of a salary of $150,000 in LA is $8,400/month. Even an in state school in California is a stretch. Our family EFC is 63% of take home pay.
Premed isn’t a major. What are you planning for a your major?
Case is a small(er) private university located in a big city with a 11:1 student faculty ratio. UMich is a large public university located in a smaller college town with a student-faculty ratio of 15:1.
For our family, the elite academic reputation, especially for my kid’s major and minor, one of the best college towns and B1G sports were important factors.
My own D goes to Purdue for engineering so I’m not knocking Michigan at all. It was in her top 3. That said, I just think for a pre-med, having smaller classes from day 1 and having access to three medical centers within walking distance of campus (Cleveland Clinic, University, and the VA) is a huge plus. Cleveland is a great little city and Case is in a culturally rich area of town, adjacent to the museum oval.
When you throw in the cost savings, it’s icing on the cake.
I lived about 40 minutes from Case for 17 years. All the students we know who went there, and there were many, all were very successful and loved their time on campus.
UMich is a much larger school than CW and thus produced more medical school apps than CW, 796 vs. 199. About 4 to 1, but UMich is big.
But the conventional wisdom is that a high GPA (and MCAT score) is crucial to medical school admissions. So, if it’s all about medical school, then I believe CW would be the better choice here. Like a lot of large prestigious public schools, such as UMich, Cal and UCLA as a few examples, achieving a high GPA will likely be much more difficult than compared to a smaller private school, like CW.
Also, med school is expensive. So, saving $70,000 for your UG degree would be prudent. Even being a UMich parent, go to CW.
I am a professor at a UC medical school. I am a graduate of the UC system. My DS is most likely heading to CWRU. I agree with everything said in the last few posts, CWRU to me seems optimal for premed students, with the rich medical community, smaller class sizes, less competing for med school slots, ease of access to research (this can be important down the road for the application in addition to the MCAT, and GPA). We have had amazing CWRU alumni on our faculty and post graduate students. That being said, UMichigan grads walk our halls daily, and are superb too. Both are well regarded when considering them for admissions. I would go with Case, for the savings (medical school is crazy expensive). However, if you want your child to have the Big 10 college sport experience do that, as CWRU doesn’t have that - but they do have great pro sports, and strong D3 sports. My friends’ kids that have gone to UMich are very happy. Happiness goes a long way. The parent groups of current students at both institutions is really helpful to get a feel. Did your child have a chance to visit? If so, what does her gut say - I think I know what the pocket book says! Congrats to your daughter for such wonderful choices.
Many aspiring premeds just default to majoring in biology. It’s not necessarily the best choice - choose a bio major only if she’s passionate about the subject and about studying it in more depth than one strictly needs for pre-med… and also if her Plan B (if not med school) is grad school. Employability with an undergrad bio degree is not great.
One huge advantage of CWRU is their open door policy re: majors. She can explore and choose any major she likes, without barriers to entry.
UMich is better than most large state flagships with regard to major flexibility, but still not as flexible as Case.
UMich is unusual in giving any need-based aid at all to out-of-state undergrads. But this funding goes only to low-income students. If you were in this category, you would have gotten more aid than you describe from Case. So you should expect to be full-pay for UMichigan, for an out-of-pocket that’s nearly double what you’d pay at Case.
As others have stated, there’s no meaningful difference in the overall academic quality between the two. There are pros and cons on both sides, but nothing that could make one worth double the cost of the other.
Most people, especially high school students, are ignorant about colleges. My daughter went to Rice, a top-20 university by most rankings, and most people at her high school hadn’t heard of it. She was variously asked why it was named after food, whether it was an ag school, and whether it was as good as UC Davis. (No shade toward Davis - great school - but Rice is vastly harder to get into.) Tell your daughter that when she gets there, everybody will have heard of it. CWRU is a phenomenal choice for an aspiring doctor, and she’ll have money left over for med school - win-win.
You have an opportunity right now, before you get your (no) aid package from UMich, to tell your daughter what you’re willing to pay for her to go there. Perhaps pick a figure halfway between CWRU’s price and the UMich full-pay price. If a miracle occurs and money appears to make this possible, fine - but it almost certainly won’t. She may at one point have expected you to be willing to full-pay, but the world and the economy have changed since then.
In terms of major flexibility within UMich LSA, there’s no significant barrier (department approval) to switching majors, adding majors or minors. Roughly 75-85% of LSA (and CoE) students switch majors at least once, according the info shown us at orientation a couple years ago. You can vent propose you’re own major.
The only major barrier is if the LSA student wants to transfer in to the Ross Business School. Ross allows about 100-150 inter-school transfers per year. Even transferring into CoE from LSA is reasonably obtainable.
Also, UMich has a major called Biology, Health and Society, which is a bit more “expansive” with courses from Sociology and Education departments. IIRC.
Most college students are not going to get admitted to Stanford or any similarly generous private university (which is relatively few of the total number of universities available). And those from lower income families have a bigger hill to climb to earn the merit that would make them realistic candidates for admission (these universities typically get about half full-pay (top 5% family income), with Pell grant (bottom half) being significantly less than half of those who do get FA).
In terms of state schools, some states have relatively good in-state FA, but others do not, so students from lower income families struggle to afford their in-state publics in those states (Pennsylvania is the usual example, but is not the only one).
Most college students are money-limited in their choice of college (or if they go to college at all), so most commute to colleges local to where they lived before college. To have more of a choice, most students would need either parents with money, or top-end high school academic credentials.
In any case, upper middle income families can easily make themselves lower income by taking lower paying jobs and giving their assets away to charity (with enough lead time due to the prior-prior-tax-year used on FAFSA and CSS Profile). It is usually a lot harder for lower income families to become upper middle income, despite most wanting and trying to do so.
Never has so little been done with so much. It’s painful, not Rich Rod and Hoke painful, but still painful. (Harbaugh was the QB my first two years at Michigan, so I’m a big fan still) Nevertheless, I still try every year or two to go to a game. Just hope there is a season this year, and maybe a bowl game out here! Go Blue!
We have not visited the campus. We are planning to do that this coming week although the building would not be open but she would get a feel about the campus. My D prefers U Mich because also it is a bigger school and she feels CWR is more nerdy. I am hoping the at least give us some money. We will find out next week.
I would think we have reached the breaking point where a family needs to intentionally lower its income just to get financial aid, sacrificing a mortgage and retirement.
I continue to be outspoken not just against Michigan, but many universities. In California, we have the CSUs and UCs. There are some good schools within the CSUs (SDSU, CalPoly, Long Beach), but many of the prized universities are in the UC system. Both systems are relatively affordable tuition wise (usually between $9,000-$15,000/year), that is if you can get accepted. If you can’t, then you find yourself going OOS or to a lesser in state school. And OOS starts to get you in trouble.
When a family finds itself paying $35-$50K/year in tuition alone, I question whether it’s even worth the expense. Seems to me that a college undergraduate education, all in, should cost somewhere between $75-$125K for four years, for a family. Many individuals, as you mention, have to borrow or commute from home. Or spend two years in the local community college, which is actually a good financial choice.
When you get to the $200K-$300K range for undergrad, no matter the school, it’s just plain nonsense. With loans, that’s $1,400-$2,000/month for 20 years!
