<p>Yes, Grinnell and Bryn Mawr are up there, but still they are treated like community colleges by the kids/parents obsessed with the Ivies and Stanford/ND/Duke.</p>
<p>They’re still very difficult to get into, but they’re not total lottery crapshoots.</p>
<p>Good Lord, just apply early. The real accpetance rates for all these instittuions are a mixture of the resonable 30-45% early rates and these insane under 10% regular rates. Just pick your favorite place, apply early, get joy in December and sit out the frenzy in the Spring.</p>
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Since I referenced Bryn Mawr in my post #55, I just want to clarify that I think it is a wonderful college, and even encouraged my daughter to consider it and apply. It was very early on our list of possible “match” schools. However, it was in New York, Boston or Chicago. In my daughter’s scheme, Fordham (a safety) was higher up the preference list than any non-urban school. Heck, I think CUNY would have been higher up her preference list.</p>
<p>To the OP - you might find this thread useful (and I know there have been other similar threads) <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/767118-under-3-6-gpa-applying-top-20-parents-thread.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/767118-under-3-6-gpa-applying-top-20-parents-thread.html</a></p>
<p>Also for the OP - 2030 is a very good score, but if your son wants to go to a Top 20 (or whatever PC term you want to apply) school, he should think about retaking the SAT. My son got a 2090 his first time, but he wanted it to be higher to have a realistic chance at the very top schools. (Of course, he could have decided that he didn’t want to have to work at getting into college and applied to the local CC to avoid having a stressful senior year - sarcasm level on high. He took it twice more and had a 2300 super-score.</p>
<p>I am currently advising a junior and have advised him to retake the SAT and he has a 2180 score. But his GPA is lower than your son’s and I think that a higher than 2200 score would give him a boost. I am also recommending that he take two SATIIs in his best subjects. To get into the very top schools, even with top grades and scores you have to have something that they want for that class (and the problem is that you will probably never know what that something is).</p>
<p>OP, there are a couple of facts of life you need to know. First, the students and parents on this board are in no way representative of college applicants. Second, there are many many excellent schools beyond the Top 20. Third, you had it right in your first post: 1-2 safeties, 5-6 matches, 1-2 reaches. </p>
<p>But, like many, you’re doing it backward; you’re looking first at the reaches. I’ve heard it said, and I agree, that the most important school on any student’s list is the safety. A true safety – a school where acceptance is all but guaranteed AND which the student would be content to attend – provides the essential foundation to the rest of the search. Once that is in place, the student can turn his/her attention to matches – schools where the student is solidly in the middle of last year’s freshman class stat-wise. Only after a good list of matches is assembled should the student start looking at reaches. These are the dessert, so to speak; the longshot, the crapshoot, the not-to-be-depended-upon. Think of them as just for fun after the work of completing a realistic list is done. </p>
<p>There’s a reason for doing it in this order. If a student starts with reaches, matches are going to seem like an anticlimactic after-thought, and the safety will feel like the failure-outcome. OTOH, if the student starts with a safety, then matches (which is where he/she will probably end up) feel like great options. And reaches are recognized for what they are: pie in the sky which could happen, but probably won’t.</p>
<p>Actually, if the student is truly content to attend the safety … then it’s fine of all the other schools are reaches. I think this is a common situation for students who live in states with fairly good public u. systems – for example, my kids were guaranteed admission to the UC system. So the “safety” part was easy. My son was interested in match schools, but my d. was pretty much focused on reaches – it didn’t bother me, because as the parent and chief bill-payer, in my heart-of-hearts I really would have been happier if she had attended school closer to home. The tough thing for me would have been if she had been accepted to an out-of-state “match” that did not give her much financial aid – would I have paid more money to send my d. to a distant college that I didn’t perceive to be any better quality than our in-state public? Not likely. At least when she was accepted to a super-reach college, I felt a lot better about digging deep into my pockets and taking out loans to keep her there. </p>
<p>A “match” really isn’t all that different than a “reach” – it’s just a college where the student might be accepted or might be rejected. (or, as happened to my daughter with her so-called “match” school, waitlisted). </p>
<p>So I’d go: 2 financial safeties that the student is definitely willing to attend. (No, they don’t have to “love” the safety – but the student and parent need to know that when the time comes, the kid will happily pack his bags and go – but the emotion of being “ok” is fine). And then whatever other schools the kid wants to attend, trying to be smart about narrowing the list – and with full understanding of financial issues as well as the being prepared for the relative likelihood at rejection. </p>
<p>In a way, in hindsight, I think that the waitlist notices from “match” schools was more frustrating for my daughter than the outright rejection from a super-reach. She was prepared for the rejection, but rather stunned by the waitlist, especially after having been accepted to far more selective schools.</p>
<p>S1 had a 2090 (790M, 640V, 660W) and got into Northwestern regular decision. New Jersey White Male, 75K family income - had the normal ec’s, non-athlete. I think what got him in was his teacher recs. One of the teachers he asked a rec from was his English Teacher. He always used to say to me, “I worked harder in that class than I had to in all my science/language/math combined”. And that was to get a “B”. He didn’t get to see his recs, but I think they made the difference.</p>
<p>calmom, I think the story about your daughter is consistent with what many people have been saying–highly selective schools won’t accept kids with relatively low scores unless they have something outstanding to offer. I think the problem is that people may have too narrow a view of what that something outstanding might be–it’s not just being an athlete or URM–it can be a demonstrated strong ability and interest in an unusual subject–Russian, in your daughter’s case. Does every kid have something like this to offer? Probably not. Also, different schools are looking for different things. So:
Sure it’s a top school. But how many unhooked people are there with low *math *scores? Juilliard’s a top school, too, and there may be plenty of people there with weak math scores.</p>
<p>ACCecil gets my vote as Poster of the Millennium. :)</p>
<p>In a few years many schools, top ones included, may go SAT/ACT optional. Then, everyone can apply at anywhere, and <1% get in. I suspect that applicants will send in test scores still, and the median scores of matriculated won’t change much.</p>
<p>The title of this thread is the issue. There is no cut-off. Of course someone with a 2200+ can be a little less wow-y in the EC/accomplishment department than some one with a sub 2200 score. But both sets of kids need to bring something other than grades and scores to the table. It’s a continuum the worse your scores/grades are the more you have to convince the admissions committee that you are worth the risk.</p>
<p>I knew my younger son’s (less than 2200) grades would shut him out at the most selective universities (but #8 on the infamous list ain’t bad). His EC’s really weren’t earthshaking, but he’d done things beyond the usual laundry list of school based activities and was able to write about them in an engaging way that emphasized his ability to teach himself new skills and persevere. He was also able to show himself as a budding historian/poly sci type of guy (with a charming sense of humor) in the context of one of his activities.</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter that much where you go undergrad. Seriously.</p>
<p>Thanks, LadyD, and I am sorry if I type before I think on occasion and offend. It is a message board. I’m tolerant of other people’s view points. I don’t spend a lot of time worrying, obviously, about my views. I’m not trying to win the poster of the week award. I hear its a set a steak knives. Already got some. Besides, being poly correct is just another way of saying not being honest. </p>
<p>Anyway, I echo sewhappy’s post. So true. So much anguish over UG and it probably isn’t worth all the pain and suffering attached to it in most cases. </p>
<p>Okay, okay, sure, I do sometimes find myself wishing I had gotten into, (I never applied. I only applied to the school I graduated from) or my sons get into, some amazing school but I must keep reminding myself that school is what YOU make it in large part. There are going to PLENTY of opportunities for growth and development at the schools on our radar. The schools we are considering will get the job done for the CAREERS we have in mind. It is that simple. </p>
<p>I hope the OP and others find the right place at the right price and have a good fit. I still read these boards because there are some darned smart and informed people here. And, I learn things from this board now and then or at least confirm what i thought I knew.</p>
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<p>Well, so what? Such people are idiots, so who cares what their opinions are? I don’t get why this would be important, at all. Are you choosing for / with your own kid, or to impress their high school classmates that they’ll never see again and / or the other parents in your community? I personally couldn’t care less what other parents in my community think, because where my kids go is not their concern, problem or business unless they’re offering to foot the bill. Half of them wouldn’t know my D’s top LAC if they tripped over it, but that’s their problem, not mine.</p>
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<p>Amen. December 10, done and done. Best decision ever made chez Pizzagirl! It has made for a much less stressed senior year. Closure is good!</p>
<p>I wish there is a prescreening process so that students know ahead they don’t have a chance in hell at certain schools because of whatever factors so that they don’t have to provide additional information. The soft factors like ECs, LOR, essays should be read and reviews only a smaller number. Students should be told whether they will have to submit essays only if they have 50% of being accepted. It will save time and effort on both ends, admission officers and students.</p>
<p>One more round of applause for sonsami’s post. </p>
<p>OP, apologies if I missed it, but what safeties are on your son’s list?</p>
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<p>This is some of the best advice I have ever seen on CC. Well said.<br>
It takes no skill to determine that one’s college list is HYPSM. It takes plenty of skill to craft good safeties and matches, and then treat HYPSM as the intriguing, but long-shot, reaches they are for everybody.</p>
<p>^Amen to that, Pizzagirl! Good advice for OP and all other applicants…To avoid tears and angst next spring, it’s all about managing expectations. Set up a good foundation of safety and match schools, then reach for any other university in the universe you care to shoot for, knowing that chances at these school for an acceptance are low…for everyone.</p>
<p>My motivation for joining cc was the opposite of most here. S seemed to be underperforming in his sophomore year and I started to panic that he wouldn’t have the stats to get into any college. CC set me straight. I learned that there’s a school for everyone who wants to attend. In the end, S was accepted to a school that I never thought he’d get into. If had never come here, I could have very well talked him out of applying in the first place. Instead, I learned to step back and let him chart his course. For this, I am forever grateful for CC!!</p>
<p>Now, I am seeing my second child go through the process and she is the opposite of S. Her stats are much higher and she fulfills the admissions requirement for many top schools. However, she is most likely going to choose a lower tiered state school because she feels it is the best fit for her. I am going to step back and let her chart her own course…taking deep breaths and chanting ommmmmm…in the end I know it will work out.</p>
<p>lilmom, my case is different, my student sets high expectations for herself. It’s not parental pressure, at least not from me. I just don’t want to see tears and disappointment in senior year.</p>