You would have to be more specific about which school you are referring to. There are several with an acceptance rate of 45%.
I know exactly what the mail is all about.
Just saying that if you want OOS students to apply then you should make the info sessions bit more welcoming to OOS, That’s all folks.
And the web site of the U has it VERY clear how much that will cost me.
OP -
I’d suggest that you ask your child to repeat the precise words for you that the admissions rep used. This is a good opportunity to help your child learn to pay attention to details. What you child thinks was said, what actually was said, and what most likely was meant by those particular words, could be three very different things.
A friend of ours took his daughters on two separate trips to Berkeley and reported the same thing: a major emphasis on how hard it is to get in as an OOS student. He himself had a PhD from Cal, and asked an admissions person if that would help at all - he was told ‘no.’ Funny thing is, both girls got in. (And attended.)
I’m sure there are other OOS publics that would be more welcoming and would love your child to attend
OP, why so cryptic about the identity of the school? Perhaps others could confirm your experience or provide information suggesting that your experience was an outlier if we knew which school you were talking about.
One of the big negatives of college tours and info sessions is that by chance you can get a bad tour guide or an info session presenter having a bad day, giving you an unrepresentative negative perception of the school. I always cautioned my daughters to try to separate their impressions of the tour guides and presenters from their perceptions of the school itself, but they weren’t very successful in doing so. Negative perceptions of tour guide/presenter => negative perceptions of school; positive perceptions of tour guide/presenter => positive perceptions of school, pretty much 100% of the time.
From the OP’s description it sounds like the school is the University of Minnesota - Twin Cities.
All you can do is apply and see what happens, if you still want to.
College admission can be very unpredictable.
Also if you are full pay there are lots of other schools that would fit the bill.
I can definitely see a few flagship state schools doing this. In any case, often it will be harder to gain acceptance and it will be more expensive. High school students (from what I can see on CC) don’t think about these things. They want to go to UCLA or UCSC; they don’t see that if they live in New Mexico or Connecticut, it will cost them an extra $20,000+ over California residents and there’s no scholarship to cover that surcharge. If parents aren’t at this information meeting, I would say kudos to the presenter for not fooling the high school students.
I agree with @clintonk, we had to learn how to separate the presentation from the information. Sometimes there’s poorly presented good information - we had to separate the two.
Here in the Northeast, the “buzz” is that Delaware, Maryland, Rutgers, URI and Vermont- very welcoming to OOS kids, and they will roll out the welcome mat during the application process. Note that these are small states (NJ is very dense but still small) so one cannot think that any of the UC’s or UT would behave in the same way (why would they?). U Conn and U Mass- mixed bag. Engineering has gotten more competitive at both schools, so the “messaging” to out of stater’s isn’t as “hey we love you” as it was when we were all applying. I don’t know a lot of kids who have applied to NH or Maine state U’s so can’t comment on the “buzz”.
I have heard that Michigan admits for out of state is brutal, but that Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana are still welcoming of OOS applicants.
YMMV.
We just visited an OOS public that practically threw themselves at our feet.
We had allocated 2 hours for the campus visit and spent 5 hours. Their presentation before the walking tour was a full hour and was very energetic and welcoming. Encountering a young professor while walking around in the school of interest, he provided a business card and directed us to the Honors Program office, whose leadership spent over 1/2 hour with us without an appointment.
I think it’s all about training and the right customer service mindset, honestly. Although admittedly, the full OOS tuition scholarship for GPA of 3.8+ and ACT of 32+ speaks volumes about this school’s mission to attract the OOS students who will enhance their programs.
I’d take it as ‘Hey, save your time and your $40 bucks and don’t apply.’ If the school was unwelcoming as a first impression, don’t expect working with them over the next 4-5 years to be any better. There are plenty of other instate and OOS schools for your son to apply to. He didn’t like this one, move on.
I think the Cal administrator was answering honestly when asked if having a parent as an alum helps. No, it doesn’t. My law school set out letters one year after they had over-accepted for the incoming class. It basically explained they would never do that again, they were adjusting their acceptance rates for the first round and then would admit from a waiting list. It also explained that it was a state school, had rules and regulations about accepting students (different counties, different backgrounds, different undergrad schools) and being a third cousin to an alum wasn’t going to help. No legacy preference.
If you are an admissions officers, would you rather read more or fewer applications?
A state university is, after all, a government run organization. They don’t have a gung ho “the customer is king” attitude at the DMV either. If you want personal attention you may want to look at private colleges.
Having said that, many state universities give the cold shoulder to the in-state applicants. The OOS-ers get all the love because they are the ones who pay more.
Agree that it is important to separate the marketing, which is simply being on a mailing list, and the school’s admissions message. Some midwest publics we know – Illinois Urbana Champaign for instance, have historically low OOS acceptance rates. When my son applied several years ago, I think 90% of the entering class was reserved for instate. That number has changed, I believe, to increase the percentage of OOS residents. But I can certainly imagine an Illinois admissions rep, especially if talking about College of Engineering, being quite discouraging about OOS admissions rates. Even UW, where my kid goes, 60% of the spots are in state, about another 15% are for tuition reciprocity from MN, and about 25% are other OOS admissions. So yes, the stats for a non WI/MN student must be higher to be admitted.
You can dig through the school’s common data set for admissions stats on kids, though the common data set does not distinguigiush between in state and OOS admits, so it is important to remember that an OOS kid must be more in the top 25%. Another place to cull through admissions info is to go to the decision threads for the specific school here on CC – there will be lots of anecdotes about OOS stats vs. in state on those boards.
Some publics recruit OOS students more heavily than others. My kid was welcomed to University of Iowa with open arms, but I can imagine that some others would not have been thrilled one way or the other to have him on campus.
Good luck, there is lots to sort through during this process.
wow.
I re-read posts 1 thru 8, and I did not see anything that remotely called anyone stupid or misinformed. I think that comment in post 8 is an insult to every poster thru post 7.
Intelligent people can have different impressions on the same presentation.
This goes against my understanding that OOS students have an easier time being admitted to many state schools. They bring in higher tuition offset by less finaid.
Post 8 only applies to post 6 pointing out that Upenn is not a state school. Nothing to do with or implied about the other posts or presentations. @emilybee pointed out she was pointing it out for others, so it is little ado about nothing.
@latichever, OOS definitely do not have an easier time getting in to many publics. They bring in higher tuition, but because of political pressure/laws, many state schools reserve more spots for instate kids.
Here are some publics where being OOS/OOC is an advantage: UCSD and some other UCs (though that may change for UCSD with the new OOS limit), McGill, ancient Scottish unis.
Here are some publics where being OOS is a big disadvantage: UMich, UNC, UT-Austin.
Also a disadvantage at UW-Madison.
@latichever – in terms of acceptance rates, it depends on the school. Here in the midwest, with many strong public flagships – OOS admissions varies. At UW, which I know because my son attends, an OOS student definitely needs higher stats than an instate student to be admitted, since the school’s mission is to focus on instate students first. Michigan, Illinois, and perhaps MN, seem to be similar, in that stats for OOS kids must be higher, generally. In contrast, our home state, Indiana, encourages OOS applicants with automatic merit scholarships for high stat kids, and the perception is that requirements for instate students are increasingly strict whereas not sure they are increasing for OOS students – the perception is there is now more parity between instate and OOS students, whereas before it was easier for instate IN students to be admitted. (Not saying either is good or bad, just what they are). So, it depends on the school.
This is a bit of a broad-brushed smear, and an inaccurate one at that. A public flagship is not the DMV; and if you think private institutions always provide better customer service, try talking to a few cable TV customers about their cable provider.
In fact, the governance structure of public and private universities is almost identical. In either case the ultimate governing authority is a board of trustees (sometimes called Regents or some similar name). The trustees hire the President out of the same pool as private research universities, and lots of Presidents, Provosts, and other key academic administrative personnel go back and forth pretty seamlessly between private and public institutions. For example, the current president at my alma mater, the University of Michigan, was formerly the Provost at Brown, and the current President at Columbia was formerly the President at Michigan. Another former President at Michigan later served as President at Princeton. And so on. These people are equally committed to academic excellence and provision of a quality educational product regardless of whether they’re wearing a public or a private hat at the moment.
Same goes for faculty: they’re hired out of the same pool and there’s lots of mobility in both directions between public and private.
Colleges and universities vary in the degree to which they adopt and implement a “customer is always right” approach, but the divide isn’t public v. private. The relative wealth of the institution may play a role, but not all private schools are rich and not all public schools are poor.