UPenn or Northwestern?

College Search & Lists
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<p>^ I agree with you there 45%er…the times I visited Chicago, I was very impressed and had a great time…I want to plan a Washington D.C and Philadelphia trip for some U.S. history immersion…I’ll probably be just as impressed with Philly as Chicago…</p>

<p>Can we talk about L.A. too? LOL! Talk about a cultural wasteland with a do-nothing mayor (except flash his megawatt smile for photo ops and press conferences)…</p>

<p>Oh and 45%er, regarding your question about how I figure you and Trump aren’t one in the same…well, for starters, the user name 45%er is waaay too modest for a guy like Trump…he’d prob select at least 120% as his user name, if he was into percentages…;)</p>

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<p>Right. Go to Chicago for chicken wings. That’s a good idea. </p>

<p>Come to Buffalo. It’s only two and a half hours from Ithaca. I’ll show you wings.</p>

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<p>^ Back in the '80s, I had wings in Buffalo at the place that claimed to have invented Buffalo Wings (can’t remember the name)–mighty fine. :)</p>

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<p>I am sure we can all agree that Philadelphia and Chicago are both sweet cities, and definitely better than, say, Providence or New Haven ;)</p>

<p>But having a “better” city does not make it a better place to have an undergrad experience. Case in point: New York City is going to trump Chicago and Philly in just about any category you can think of. But that doesn’t mean Columbia and NYU have the world’s best undergraduate experiences. </p>

<p>Oh and go to Penn ;)</p>

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I love that term…the undergraduate experience…sounds like a movie-based theme ride at an amusement park…:rolleyes:</p>

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[quote^ Back in the '80s, I had wings in Buffalo at the place that claimed to have invented Buffalo Wings (can’t remember the name)–mighty fine.
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<p>Sadly, there are much better places for wings in Buffalo than the Anchor Bar, even though it gets all the attention. Try Duff’s, Gabriel’s Gate, or Pearl Street.</p>

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It’s only silly if you don’t know–or are resistant to–the FACTS. Let’s look at a few of these categories just for fun:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Art: Philly’s art museums and collections easily rival Chicago’s in size, scope, and international significance, such as:
a) the Philadelphia Museum of Art–one of the largest and most comprehensive art museums in the country
b) the Rodin Museum–largest collection of Rodin sculptures outside of Paris
c) the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts–the oldest art museum in the country with one of the finest collections of American art
d) the Brandywine River Museum–less than a mile from Andrew Wyeth’s house in the heart of the Brandywine Valley, and one of the world’s largest and finest collections of art of the Wyeth family and the Brandywine School
e) the Barnes Foundation–perhaps the largest and finest private collection of impressionist and post-impressionist art in the world; e.g., when a small portion of the Barnes Foundation’s collection was displayed in the 1990s at Paris’ Musee D’Orsay–itself one of the largest impressionist museums in the world–it attracted some of the largest crowds ever seen for a Parisian museum exhibition
f) the Penn Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology–one of the largest and finest collections of ancient art and artifacts in the country
g) Winterthur (in Delaware but in the Philly metro area)–one of the largest and finest collections of American antiques and decorative arts in the world;
h) Philly has the largest amount of outdoor art–sculptures, etc.–of any city in the country<br>
i) Philly has the largest collection of outdoor mural art in the world–thousands of murals painted by hundreds of artists throughout the city</p></li>
<li><p>Culture: well, we’ve already covered art, which is a big part of culture. And then there’s classical music, in which Philly easily rivals Chicago. Philly’s got other museums which are comparable to Chicago’s (Franklin Institiute, Please Touch Museum, Academy of Natural Sciences) plus a large collection of smaller quirky museums devoted to a wide array of subjects (Mutter Museum of Medical History, Civil War Museum, American Philosophical Society, several ethnic history museums, etc.) which Philly’s known for and which can’t be found anywhere else. Ethnic festivals–Philly’s got a bunch of those, probably comparable to Chicago. On the whole, it’s pretty clear that Philly easily rivals Chicago in terms of “culture” (as it’s generally defined).</p></li>
<li><p>Architecture: If by this you mean modern skyscrapers, that’s easy–Chicago rules. But if you include pre-WWII architecture, Philly not only rivals, but clearly BEATS Chicago hands down. You won’t find a larger, more diverse mix of Colonial, Federal, Greek Revival, Victorian (in all its varied forms), Colonial Revival, Beaux Arts, etc. architecture in any other city in the country. For example, did you know that in the 18th Century, Philly was the second-largest English-speaking city in the WORLD? Only London was larger. And this kind of prominence continued throughout the 19th and into the early 20th centuries, leaving the city with an unparalleled legacy of American architectural history that survives to this day. So yep, I’d say that Philly easily rivals Chicago in architecture (as long as we don’t limit that to include only modern skyscrapers).</p></li>
<li><p>Neighborhoods: Philly’s widely known as a city of neighborhoods, and it’s got a lot of great ones. I could start listing them, but I’m not sure the names would mean much to you. Let’s just say that Philly’s incredible architectural legacy discussed above, combined with its amazing park system (largest urban park system in the country, if not the world), and the uniquely walkable nature of the city (arising out of its 17th and 18th century roots) make its best neighborhoods easily rival the best of any other city, including Chicago. And if you add Philly’s lovely suburban and exurban communities into the mix (as I said before, the AAA guide says that Philly has among the most beautiful exurban areas in the country), it’s a fairly awesome combination. And one that, indeed, rivals Chicago.</p></li>
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<p>The more you know about Philly, the more you appreciate–and respect–it. :)</p>

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I think it was the Anchor Bar (that sounds familiar). As I said, it was back on the '80s, so it may have gone downhill since then.</p>

<p>Funny how a Penn/Northwestern thread has now detoured into a discussion of the best places to get wings in Buffalo. :)</p>

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<p>Don’t get me wrong: I appreciate and respect Philly. I dated a girl from Philly for a while who extolled on my all the virtues of the City of Brotherly Love. </p>

<p>But it’s contributions as an American city over the last century do not rival Chicago’s. Certainly not when it comes to architecture and culture. Chicago’s contributions to jazz and blues alone may put it over the the top.</p>

<p>And some people consider Chicago to the best important city in the world for architecture:</p>

<p>[The</a> Not-So-Second City](<a href=“http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200601/book-reviews]The”>The Not-So-Second City - The Atlantic)</p>

<p>I also think most people agree that Chicago is a much more “livable” city than Philadelphia, as the the entire North Side demonstrates. The entire city of Philly (minus City Centre) sometimes seems like block after block of dilapidated row houses.</p>

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Noooooooooooooooo, not true.</p>

<p>While there certainly are large portions of Philly outside of Center City that meet that description (unfortunately the ones through which Amtrak trains run), there are other large portions outside of Center City that are quite lovely, interesting, and great places to live. In Northwest Philly, there are the neighborhoods or Chestnut Hill, Mount Airy, Roxborough/Manayunk, East Falls, etc. Northeast Philly has lots of great, very liveable neighborhoods. In West Philly, there are some great neighborhoods like University City, Overbrook Farms, etc. In south Philly there is Queen Village, etc. You–and unfortunately too many others–have a jaundiced view of Philly which is not reality. Sure, it has some horrible neighborhoods, but so does Chicago, Boston, NYC, etc., etc. It also has lots of wonderful neighborhoods–in Center City and outside of it–which are extremely liveable and attract hundreds of thousands of residents.</p>

<p>In terms of jazz, Philly’s made more than its share of contributions. I don’t know if you know about jazz, but I’ll drop some names in case you do. The following folks were from, got their starts, and/or spent much of their careers in Philly: John Coltrane, Benny Golson, the Heath brothers (Percy, Jimmy, and Albert “Tootie”), Bobby Timmons, Lee Morgan, Jimmy Smith, Philly Joe Jones, Paul Motian, Hank Mobley, Stan Getz, McCoy Tyner, Clifford Brown, Shirley Scott, Pat Martino, Joey DeFrancesco, Christian McBride, Dizzy Gillespie, Orrin Evans, Micky Roker, Sun Ra . . . .</p>

<p>I could go on and on, but I’m tired of typing. :slight_smile: The point is, if you know anything about jazz from the last 50 or so years, you know most if not all of those names, and are aware of the TREMENDOUS contribution Philly has made to jazz during that period. Again, the more you know about Philly, the more you understand and appreciate it.</p>

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<p>Maybe I am jaundiced. I’ve spent more time in Chicago than Philly, and it just seems that Chicago captures the public imagination a little bit more. Maybe it’s the dramatic skyline and Lake Michigan. I don’t know. So I’m willing to say Philly is underrated, but I still prefer Chicago, simply because it reminds me more of Buffalo. </p>

<p>But I’m going to have to disagree with you on the assessment that Boston has some not nice neighborhoods. Boston is suffocatingly wealthy, to the point where it’s laughable what people consider to be a “bad” neighborhoods. There was never an area of Boston where I felt unsafe, even the deepest sections of Dorchester. The same can’t be said of Philly and Chicago.</p>

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<p>Chicago is also a much more popular tourist destination. For a truly big city feel, only New York beats it. Of course New York is in a league of its own. Oh oh, i might have started another discussion. :-)</p>

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<p>45 Percenter,</p>

<p>How come you haven’t said anything about theater? You are not into that? ;)</p>

<p>I am sure you can continue to find various obscure “do-you-know facts” like you’ve done to make your case for Philly. But it’s not the nitty gritty details of things like “how much collection of what period of arts” that really matter to most people. What really matter is the general “vibe” and it seems to me most people would agree Chicago is a more fun, cleaner, richer, better governed, more energetic, more pleasant, and safer city to be in. When people go down the deteriorated (I remember it’s stuffy, hot, old, and kinda smelly) train stations in Philly and see those trashy sidewalks even in Center City, do they really think of how great the art collection in whatever museum they saw five years ago? You mentioned those residential architecture in various neighborhoods. Well, I admit that I don’t know how to appreciate them. I think I saw “Greek revivial” buildings on a block in CC because there was a sign telling me so. I did notice that the buildings need to be fixed up a little and this is again in CC. You mentioned how they have “lots of wonderful” neighborhoods outside of CC but the homicide map seems to tell a different story. I wasn’t that impressed with Center City anyway so did I miss seeing something that’s better than CC? It’s difficult for me to imagine any of those places with a lot more dots over it on the homicide map is better than CC. [The</a> Philadelphia Inquirer](<a href=“http://inquirer.philly.com/graphics/murders_map/]The”>http://inquirer.philly.com/graphics/murders_map/) I do see that places in the northwest and northeast end are probably nice areas but what kind of neighborhoods are they, considering they are quite far from Center City? Are they really vibrant? Are they pretty happening and fun for young people or are they mostly for richer families with more of a suburban feel? </p>

<p>According to Census data, Chicago household income is 25% more. The fraction of people with college degrees is also substantially higher in Chicago . Philly is among the lowest in that category which is striking considering how many colleges the city has; this tells me the city has been having difficulty to keep the college grads from leaving the city, let alone attracting young professionals from outside. Someone told me most Penn grads move to NYC or other areas, instead of staying in Philly. I wonder how he got that info but it wouldn’t surprise me and it’s consistently with the data trend. Chicago also has significantly higher foreign-born residents, suggesting it has been a place of more and better opportunities. The population grew 4% between 1990-2000 in Chicago while the opposite (-4.3%) happened in Philly. Between 2000-2006, Philly’s population dropped another 4.6% while Chicago’s population dropped by only 0.8%. I probably speculate too much based on too little but it seems to me Philly has been struggling and experiencing brain-drain and still trying to find a way to turn it around.</p>

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<p>Boston is a MUCH smaller city in both population (590,000) and area (48.4 squared miles of land) compared to Philly (pop. 1,450,000; 135 square miles) and Chicago (pop. 2,830,000; 227 square miles of land), so it’s really not appropriate to compare Boston to Philly and Chicago in terms of crime rate, neighborhoods, etc. That being said, however, Boston recently HAS had its share of urban problems, including relatively high numbers of murders and rapes for a city of its size. For example, in 2006 Boston had a 10-year-high of 75 murders, and 297 rapes and attempted rapes:</p>

<p>[Homicide</a> spike ranks high for cities Boston’s size - The Boston Globe](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/01/09/homicide_spike_ranks_high_for_cities_bostons_size/]Homicide”>http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/01/09/homicide_spike_ranks_high_for_cities_bostons_size/)</p>

<p>[Boston’s</a> murder rate gets the most attention, but rapes increased more in 2006 | Universal Hub](<a href=“http://www.universalhub.com/node/7088]Boston’s”>Boston's murder rate gets the most attention, but rapes increased more in 2006 | Universal Hub)</p>

<p>I don’t know if you visited the neighborhoods of Roxbury and Mattapan, but they–along with Dorchester–seem to be among the highest crime areas of Boston.</p>

<p>I don’t mean to knock Boston in any way–it’s crime problem is certainly not of the magnitude of larger cities like Philly and Chicago. But every American city of any appreciable size has relatively depressed neighborhoods and crime problems, and Boston is no exception. However, with its smaller population and physical size, and because of its layout, Boston’s depressed neighborhoods and crime problems are not as readily apparent to the casual visitor.</p>

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<p>Northwestern isn’t IN Chicago. Penn is IN Philadelphia. This is a huge thing to note. This is like Penn being in Bryn Mawr or Paoli. If you want a lot of city things, Penn is right in the middle of it. I, personally, think Chicago works better as a city, but the climate is a lot colder (yes, it is- I have spent a lot of time in both places). Evanston is a suburb- a nice suburb, but a suburb.</p>

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<p>W/o traffic, you can drive down to Chic Downtown in just about 10 minutes. Evanston is right there, right north of Chicago. or, u can take a cab if u don’t have a car.</p>

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<p>^^ Without traffic? And when might THAT be?</p>

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<p>anytime that is not during rush hour. rush hour at Chicago usually is: weekdays: 7-9 am and 4:30-6:30 pm. Avoid these times, and you won’t encounter much traffic at all. (esp. evanston to chicago route, aka Sheridan, isn’t really busy at all anyway.)</p>

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<p>…I should probably just visit Penn…hopefully I have enough time to. I got off the waitlist, that’s how I was offered admission. This really became a city war rather quickly…but the earlier posts had a consensus of saying that both are great schools and personal preference is a key deciding factor but many people in the end said something along the lines of “go with penn…”</p>

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<p>Sorry patlees. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to get from Evanston to the Loop anytime day or night in anywhere near 10 minutes. At least 20 with absolutely no traffic.</p>