<p>Perhaps he has not been studying hard.</p>
<p>It sounds as if you are on track to solving the problem. But I must say that I’m puzzled that you didn’t meet with his math teachers or a GC until the third year…</p>
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<p>I understand this from first-hand experience moving our family midway through their public school careers, several times, for spouse’s work. The move is especially hard right after the change from feeder school in to the next level. Many things are assumed or habitual to those who’ve been in the district a long time. Sometimes information circulates through a P.T.A. among parents who’ve known each other since their kids were 4-year-olds taking ballet or T-ball together. If you feel closed out, try not to express too much frustration to your son, because he can probably recover faster than you can from the move, make friends, join afterschool clubs and other strategies to give him a network of academic friends for shop-talk. I truly sympathize.</p>
<p>I’m not about to suggest individual solutions, except to agree that it’s hard to get into the line of informal communication, both for you and your child. Those Guidance Counselor lectures about organization still have merit, but I see why you say that’s not the <em>only</em> problem. Meanwhile, he must come to understand that turning in his homework is his sole responsibility, since he’s on the scene daily and you’re not. </p>
<p>This is a chance to pull him in close with you, say, “We’re all new here, and we have to come up with unique strategies to assertively find out the information.” Nobody’s necessarily bad at your school district, and it’d hurt your kid’s chances to begin to download that frustration on him since he can’t help that you just moved in. </p>
<p>S-2 had the hardest time moving from a tiny rural parochial school (K-8) to a large, excellent, toney suburban high school right before 9th grade. Grades didn’t match his intelligent head! I finally figured out: he was accustomed to walking between classes with a small group of friends who all took the same classes as 8th graders. They’d remind each other of everything! He never had to write down an assignment! </p>
<p>Once he hit a large high school, where friends all took different classes and ran different schedules, he was lost. Certainly nobody at h.s. had the patience to teach him how to keep his own planner, as that training all happened in the large feeder middle schools of the district. It was painful and tedious, but we did the reinforcing from home: my kitchen table checks to see that he’d written down his assignments and quiz dates, his little checkmarks in-school each time the assignment was handed in to the teacher, etc. Things did get better, especially after he made school friends, but I found “Teaching Planner Skills” frustrating to me, as I remember things more than I write them down. We got through it.</p>
<p>ETA: We also withdrew him from one of the AP’s in mid-autumn, as we were poorly advised also on that aspect and had overloaded him. In the long run (he’s now a college graduate), it is MUCH better to take a regular or “honors” class in the weaker subject and shine in everything else than take too many AP’s. Where we are, “honors” is a bump up from “regular” but not an AP. </p>
<p>When someone says, “Lots of students take 5 AP’s…” just remember your guy is not “lots of students.”</p>
<p>Some on CC will say 5-7 AP’s is normal and just as many say it is not. If your son is at a GT school, maybe it is, there. Originally, you thought maybe he wasn’t a math kid- now we see he’s in AP chem, bio and CS- all of which can require similar detail, analytical and organizational skills/thinking. Is he ok with those?</p>
<p>It’s not unusual, in itself, for a kid to suffer through some particular courses. Also, that some teachers are not as good as others. Or whatever. What’s important, in the end, is standing back a bit and assessing. Is it as simple as not turning in all work? Or, not knowing about the exta help? Is it that his primary interests and strengths are not truly math oriented? What can you learn from this before shooing him toward college?</p>
<p>I do agree that I would have been in contact with a teacher earlier. Do make sure that when it’s time to make a college list and enter all the considerations related to that, that he is in firm contact with the GC- ie, no surprises there, no last-minute confusion about choices and directions. Good luck.</p>
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<p>You must drive your children bananas. lol</p>
<p>^^No this parent is wondering why her kiddo is getting lower grades than thinks should have been gotten. An earlier poster told the OP to ask the kiddo why the grades are what they are…is it tests, not turning in homework, not understanding the teacher and then this poster told the parent to ask the teacher what the teacher’s perception is. That is totally reasonable. There are two sides to every story.</p>
<p>In my experience, approaching a teacher as a collaborator works quite well. As in, “I noticed Joey got X on his standardizing testing, which would indicate he could do better in classes and isn’t really maximizing his potential. I was wondering if you would be interested in strategizing ways to address this with me?”</p>
<p>I’ve never had a teacher turn down an opportunity to collaborate with me on facillitating my kids’ success in school. I could imagine an approach to the teacher of irritation and blame, however, might be met with a certain amount of “Well, Joey needs to turn in his work like the rest of the kids.” full stop.</p>
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<p>Well yeah, sort of. When he started to blow a test or two at the beginning, he should have met with the teacher(s) to discuss what he could do differently. Moreover, you as a parent probably would have met with the teacher(s) to ask the same question. Try to get to the bottom of what is going on exactly with his performance, look for ways to do things differently. </p>
<p>I think <em>taking responsibility</em> will be crucial to your child’s success:</p>
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<li><p>That means being responsible in terms of meeting deadlines, showing the work, all those organizational/executive function things. </p></li>
<li><p>That means being proactive and seeking out resources, asking questions, finding ways to improve beyond waiting for someone to hold your hand and tell you the secret formula. It would mean meeting teachers, going to office hours, going on line to find problem sets, asking classmates or studying together. There are TONS of resources if one takes the initiative and responsibility. </p></li>
<li><p>That means not looking for excuses to blame someone else for poor performance (ie. I strongly doubt a potential A student gets a C- because he didn’t know about a website that gives solutions to extra problems). </p></li>
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<p>I don’t think the world is out to be unfair to a particular student; conspiracy theories will just make you bitter.</p>
<p>Grades and test scores really do not necessarily correlate with ability. My son was certainly capable to be in Honors math, or AP math, throughout HS but instead only was placed in grade level math. He had trouble getting organized before each class, so he got points off. He didn’t participate, so he got points off. and on and on throughout HS. He always did the homework, but had trouble remembering where to turn it in if he didn’t have class. (He has ADD and Asperger’s). He got a 790 in his Math SAT.</p>
<p>Then in college, it was more of the same. He “could” have gotten a 93 in the midterm. Because he used the short form to calculate the answers rather than the long form, his grade was a 58 as a result (and eventually a 63). By the final, he was determined to show every detail. The test started at 4:00pm and because he is allowed extra time, he kept working and the proctor allowed him to continue. He handed his exam in at midnight. He flew home the next day for Christmas vacation. The following day, my son got an email from the professor asking him who is TA was, because they held all the quizzes. My son didn’t know he was supposed to go to recitation classes. He thought his “small group classes” were those he took at the Special Ed office every week. He got zeroes for all the quizzes he missed and ended up with a C- as a final grade.</p>
<p>Re: #25. Is this about not helicoptering? Because, sometimes kids need our oversight. They are kids. Most of this thread has focused on what the son’s role in this may have been. A bit late to single out one poster. JMO.</p>
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<p>Hi, It is not a GT school, it is a large suburban public school with both GT classes and normal academic classes. </p>
<p>Yes, we thought he may not be the “math type” because of his low freshman and sophomore grades in math. However, once we saw his SAT scores at the end of sophomore year, we quickly realized that his low math grades did not reflect a failure to understand mathematics. It may have reflected a failure to submit some assignment on time (poor time management). It may have reflected a failure to understand where he was suppose to get supplementary course information (on the web). It may also have reflected on his failure to know the number of AP classes to take.</p>
<p>Just edited out my response because it seems everyone has already covered it. Darn page wasn’t fully loaded and I missed pages 2/3.</p>
<p>The SAT measures what the SAT measures. Plenty of gripes about it, from professionals, not just parents and kids. Plenty of CC discussion focuses on how to study for the SAT, how to improve scores by 100 or more points, etc. It’s not the measure we think it is. Not some aptitude test. My own personal reaction to a 690 would simply be (and I am kind of hard on this, yes) NOT that he was, in fact, ok with math- but that he was ok with the M SAT, as it is constructed.</p>
<p>What will happen fast with this thread is that, if blame is directed at the school, for not making supp info crystal clear, or counselors, for not suggesting fewer APs, you’re going to get kick-back from other parents. </p>
<p>I think many of us here are opposed to Tiger Parenting, but do get involved. Good luck. Just make sure you find the right balance to teach him the array of skills needed for college and young adulthood. It’s never easy.</p>
<p>paying3tuitions, Thank you for sharing. So, what would be the outcome if I withdrew him and put him in a school in another district? The transcript will show two 6 week terms. He is not failing any class nor getting any Ds. Can he drop down to academic at another school?</p>
<p>Why are you so focused on withdrawing him and moving him into another district, when you haven’t diagnosed the problem or taken the appropriate first steps or tried to do anything constructive with current teachers?</p>
<p>I think you’re also overvaluing what the SAT measures. The SAT is a bit arbitrary in what it covers; it is not evidence of math genius / aptitude, IMO.</p>
<p>If you think the problem may be " a failure to submit some assignment on time (poor time management). It may have reflected a failure to understand where he was suppose to get supplementary course information (on the web). It may also have reflected on his failure to know the number of AP classes to take," how will transferring to another district change any of that?</p>
<p>I really think you need to stop blaming the school and start addressing your son’s issues. Otherwise he will have the same problems everywhere, including in college.</p>
<p>BTW, I may have missed something, but it doesn’t sound as if there is any evidence that he can’t handle his current course load, particularly if he–and you, as his “coach”–pay attention to time management, meeting deadlines, and details. It certainly sounds as if his teachers think he can handle it, or he probably would not have been placed in those classes. Unless they tried to place him in other classes and you demanded that he be in AP, and it doesn’t sound as if that is the case.</p>
<p>Wow…10% of the grade for a “tidy” assignment book would have killed us! I have a kid who would turn in assignments on paper towels or scrap paper if she could get by with it! As it is it always looks meesy to me!</p>
<p>Changing schools may not be fair to him. He’s a whole person, with social needs as well as academic- and the same ability to grow from challenges. And, it won’t erase the earlier math grades. You have not described a situation that endangers him mentally or physically. Nor, an opp to switch to a better, more difficult school that might impress adcoms more than his current. </p>
<p>You need some think time- about the right goals and how you can truly help him.</p>
<p>I, too, believe that the math SAT isn’t a real good indicator of one’s ability to do math. One admissions counselor I talked with also voiced that opinion. She claimed that the SAT math II subject test was a much better indicator of math ability. They required both the SAT I math score and the math II score for admission but only really used the subject test for admissions decisions.</p>
<p>Have your son take the math II subject test. Also talk to his teacher to see what is going on in the classroom and the reason for the poor grades.</p>
<p>My son was a disorganized mess but in all subjects but he could muddle through middle school and pick up his grades when push came to shove - and a lot of screaming and yelling in our house, taking away computer games, his ipod, cell phone. We even tried paying him for good grades. Nothing worked. </p>
<p>After the first 5 week progress report came home and it was as dreadful as his middle school ones, I said enough, pulled him from his excellent suburban public school and put him in a private school where they gave detention if homework wasn’t done/handed in, etc. </p>
<p>In a week he turned it around, never had a problem with anything after that. He got excellent grades, was eventually in all honors classes and is now a freshman at a top 24 LAC. </p>
<p>I have no doubt if we hadn’t pulled him he would not be where he is today. No way, no how.</p>