upset parent

<p>sylvan, I am not too worried about the B. I have lost a lot of respect for the predicitive value of grades at this school. Considering he got Cs in geometry and algebra, then scored a 690 on the Math section of the SAT I (that tests knowledge of mathematical operations, algebra and geometry?) can you blame me?. </p>

<p>TXArtemis, I picked up a transcript a couple of weeks ago. I do not see a class rank anywhere on it . So, it could be the school has a policy of revealing rank at a later date. My son has a weighted GPA of 4.0. I am under the impression that is good for top 20 percentile, but you bring up a good point. If he transfers back to his old school, he will be in the top 5 to 10 percent in class rank. He will probably have the highest SAT score in the school. All this, in addition to the fact that his class grades will more accurately reflect his standardized scores; and he will return to the hispanic culture in which he grew up.</p>

<p>PS: As a bonus, he can write a terrific essay for his college application about his time and experience in a rich white suburban high school. lol</p>

<p>Stop comparing SAT scores to grades. They do not correlate. Scores do not predict grades or vice versa at any school. If a student is scoring well on tests, but getting a low grade, it’s most likely because of homework. Since tests don’t require homework, it is very possible to do well on them and poorly in a class. Yes this has been said many times, but it bears repeating.</p>

<p>OP, may I suggest you go back and read the whole thread now? Everyone’s explained SAT doesn’t have anything to do with grades…over and over. Why are you refusing to listen? </p>

<p>SAT doesn’t test knowledge, it’s an aptitude test! It assumes a basic level of knowledge and tests ability to reason, interpret, apply and make logical connections from there. </p>

<p>Okay, here are a couple of links that lay things out. Please read them!</p>

<p><a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/standardizedtests/tp/sat-act.htm[/url]”>http://collegeapps.about.com/od/standardizedtests/tp/sat-act.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.princetonreview.com/sat-act.aspx[/url]”>http://www.princetonreview.com/sat-act.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk</p>

<p>Also, if he was G/T in lower grades, he probably took the SAT in 7th grade in connection with the Duke TIP program. If he did, compare those scores to his sophomore SAT. I’ll bet they aren’t that far apart! That’s because the test captured you son’s aptitude for math before he had even taken HS algebra and geometry.</p>

<p>Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>TXArtemis, His scores are miles apart. </p>

<p>In 7th grade 50 percentile Math. vs. 11th grade 96 percentile in Math.</p>

<p>(Assuming 690 in SAT math = 69 in PSAT math, for a junior would be a 96 percentile rank. <a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools)</p>

<p>Keep in mind that the SAT does not refer to itself as an Aptitude Test anymore. The old achievement tests are also known as SAT tests now. </p>

<p>[College</a> Board SAT and SAT Subject Test FAQs](<a href=“News and Press Releases - Newsroom | College Board”>News and Press Releases - Newsroom | College Board) </p>

<p>[High</a> SAT Scores: What You Need to Know to about SAT Testing](<a href=“http://www.petersons.com/college-search/sat-scores-know-testing.aspx]High”>http://www.petersons.com/college-search/sat-scores-know-testing.aspx)</p>

<p>*“On the Math section, you will need to show mastery of math through Algebra II” *</p>

<p>I read the links you provided…it’s pretty clear you didn’t read the ones I furnished! And I can’t address what you propose on your son’s scores because talking in percentiles can mean many things. The percentile assigned to a score will be different depending on whether the test group is 7th vs. 10th. (Are you saying he has his junior PSAT score?) Also, the PSAT is actually structured differently than the SAT, so it’s not a fair apples/apples comparison. It doesn’t really matter, I see clearly the jump in math you’re focused on. Again, without more, that increase means little. Of course, having taken alg and geom would cause his score to improve to a certain degree, but there were likely other factors in play. SAT I math improvements more often reflect maturity and skill-development in problem-solving, test taking strategy and time management. (Has your son been a lifelong reader? The consistently high CR score suggests that.) None of this changes anything. Testing well doesn’t have any bearing on ability to make a certain grade, just as making an A doesn’t insure you’ll produce a perfect test score or making a C will insure you’ll produce an average score. If you’re really concerned about your son’s intellectual ability to master math concepts to the degree required to support his physics, CS or other interests, you will drop this whole SAT thing like a hot potato!</p>

<p>On the issue of rank, another head-banger. Just ask your son! For good or bad, because of the statutory rank-based admission schemes to our state flagships, every Texas HS kid knows his rank! </p>

<p>His GPA sounds good in a vacuum; rank puts it in local context, i.e., how well did he do compared to his peers at the same school? That is what most Texas schools consider. Yes, he could move to a less competitve school and perhaps improve his rank (it’s not a given). Why a parent would put a bright kid in a less competitive HS environment is beyond me, especially when you are projecting your son in STEM studies at a state flagship. Understand that even if he ends up below the top % he needs for auto admit, he will still be a very strong applicant because the admission counselor will know the value of his rank from that particular HS, i.e., they know the hard and easy schools, too, and accord value to rigorous prepatory education.</p>

<p>You keep waving the culture card as justification. What does he think about the possibility of being in an academic environment where he may be challenged less by teachers and peers? Which HS does he believe will better prepare him for college and life? Does he feel the rich, white vs. Hispanic tension you do? Honestly, I think you will be surprised by his answer to that one. In my experience, this generation of kids looks at these kinds of things a lot differently than their parents!</p>

<p>Speaking of culture, is being an Aggie your son’s idea? How much time has he spent on campus? It’s a great academic institution in certain fields of study, and it offers lifetime networking. But most people find the Aggie culture pretty strong…you either love it or go somewhere else. College Station itself can be a big positive or negative, depending on the kid. If your son is sure he wants to be an Aggie, that makes his college application process pretty straightforward! You can shift from focusing exclusively on admission to looking at things like possible honors and/or research paths, scholarships, financial aid if needed, extracurriculars of interest, and of course, the corps!</p>

<p>If your son isn’t 100% sure about TAMU, then he needs to do some web research and take a few roadtrips to some contendors to help him figure out what he’s looking for in a good college match. If you can study up and go with him, even better. Depending on his rank, and considering his predicted SAT, he may be a candidate for some pretty nice honors program + merit money at some schools, which might influence his application strategy. </p>

<p>Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk</p>

<p>I have no knowledge of AP or not as my kids were bright, but not studious.</p>

<p>I did note that you want to send him back to the all Hispanic high-school where he did well because he could communiacte better. YOU SHOULD NOT SEND him back there because it is easier for him to communicate etc unless you plan to send him to an a Hispanic College. </p>

<p>He needs to be at the place where he is with people most like where he will attend college. He needs to learn to communicate and be competitive with them or he may be doomed to failure in college. </p>

<p>If he’s getting a bunch of A’s now I doubt they will care about a C freshman year. They know that 9th grade can be a transition and they will look to see if he’s shown improvement.</p>

<p>TXArtemis, again thanks for some great insight into the issue. I actually did read the articles you linked and respect your opinion a lot.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Is it possible that the skills taught at some of these rich suburban high schools (to get grades) are not what good American universities are looking for in their student body? It might explain why so many top students from these suburban high schools get rejected at top universities. I dont know. I am planning on sending him to a college where students perrform similar to my son on national standardized tests and parents dont pick classes for students at PTA meetings.</p>

<p>My memory of college is a couple of hourly exams and a final. Other than that you were given a syllabus and were expected to read and answer questions related to what was on it. It was very hands off. It was not daily homework assignments and marking attendance like high school.</p>

<p>Top students get rejected from “top” universities because there are not enough spaces for all the vals/sals to be accepted to the top 20 or whatever people call the top universities.</p>

<p>The top students find places at very good schools. Your son needs to do the work to get the grades that will support his SAT scores, so he will be accepted to a fine school of his choice. Better to be challenged in a good HS than to get lazy in a lesser one and then have an unpleasant surprise in college because he hasn’t developed a good work ethic.</p>

<p>My 2 cents.</p>

<p>

Were you an engineering major? Because it’s highly unlikely that your S college experience will consist of a couple of hourly exams, a final, and questions from a syllabus.</p>

<p>Another parent who lives in TX. OP keeps mentioning suburban rich HS vs hispanic HS. At the place where I live, the HS is zoned by where we live. There is no such thing as free to move to suburban HS from urban hispanic HS unless you relocated your family to that suburban area. I wonder how did you do it, since you want to move back to prior HS.
Regarding 7th grade’s Duke SAT math score comparing to current SAT math score, maybe because your child took Algebra and Geometry after 7th grade. His grades in those classes were not high? Maybe this HS math is harder. Even with his grades as B or C, he still got 690 in math, then the HS prepared him well for SAT.
My DD took SAT in Sophomore and scored 720 in math. It is 95%. So for 690, it maybe 90%.
If your kid is doing good in school now, keep him here. He already adjusted to tougher learning environment. Why pull him back?
Just my 2 cents.</p>

<p>The educational and experiential opportunities your son will have in college will be nothing like the college you are having a hard time remembering. He will be challenged as never before, and whether he can successfully meet the challenge has everything to do with his classroom performance now and in college and nothing to do with a danged test score!</p>

<p>You are clearly enjoying being hard-headed (and haha over that little jab about picking classes in PTA), but for what useful end to your son? Instead of investing so much negativism in this, why don’t you try positive for a while…here’s one (and you will like it because it does involve a test score!): If he’s part Hispanic, he may qualify as a National Hispanic Scholar if his PSAT meets the cutoff, which will be announced in May–last year it was 182 for Texas as a part of the Southwest region–plus he has to have a certain GPA, I think it’s 3.5. If you’re interested in learning more, there are archived discussions here on CC about the scholarships some schools award to National Hispanic Scholars. As I recall, TAMU gives some money, but there are schools that offer more.</p>

<p>goodbetterbest, some districts have transfer options, e.g., in Houston ISD, if you are zoned to Lee, you can choose to go to Westside.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>In addition to what TXArtemis just said, there are several way, including, if you own more than one property zoned to different school districts. Also, if a parent is working in another school district etc.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I am aware of the NHRP program, which is why I was surprized some posters thought I was upset because my son may not make NMF and earn a scholarship. I am pretty sure S will get higher than 182, based on his performance on the SAT. I expect him to be somewhere between 202 and 220. He has a 4.0 GPA which is well above the 3.5 requirement. So, yes we expect him to be a National Hispanic scholar. I am aware of schools such as U of Nebraska, Arizona and Alabama that have nearly full rides for Hispanic scholars. So, lack of scholarship money from decent schools is not a real concern to us. Like I said before, I would not have moved him to a more competitive school if these things (like getting him scholarship money & auto admit for top 10%) were my real concern.</p>

<p>One of my kids went to CC and is starting at State U this semester. Some teachers DO require attendance, MOST require HW. Has there ever been a math class without HW? Many colleges are into having some required amount of writing intensive courses, which means many assignments. There may be some that are a few exams and a final, but don’t count on it.</p>

<p>Also, don’t you think the colleges know the competitiveness of the school an applicant is from? Being the top 5% at a school with weaker scores may not be any better than top 15% at a competitive school. Colleges want the best prepared students.</p>

<p>Maybe the Hispanic school isn’t “easier” but I just wanted to mention that in case it is. I’ll say it again, let him learn to compete now and deal with people that are not like him, because it’s a big world out there.</p>

<p>njfootballmom, I think CCs tend to be more like highschool. However, things can be a little different at bigger schools such as Rutgers. Many professors at the big schools do not care about attendance or handing in daily hw etc. They want you to perform on their tests. Infact, the harder the school the less professors care about daily hand holding to make sure kids are coming along. (It is tuff to do for 200 or 300 students anyway). As far as they are concerned do the hw to help yourself prepare for the test. If you can prepare without handing in the hw, they are fine with it. I am not saying they are all like this, but many are. I have a friend who went to MIT and says it was even worse there.</p>

<p>I do appreciate your advice. It was the main reason I brought my child to this school. The kids at my son’s school are very good. The teaching/ admn. has not lived up to my expectations. I am not saying, all the teachers are bad. Some are quite good. However, I think these kids deserve better. Strangely, it seems like the kids are not that good/ smart at the Hispanic school, but the teachers and Administration are more open and devoted to their mission.</p>

<p>What has your son said about his grade in math? What does he think of your plan to pull him out of his high school in the middle of jr year?</p>

<p>Have you emailed the teacher yet? I’m sure you can ask to have them call you to discuss what is happening in this class. </p>

<p>It sounds like the hs counselor has done an excellent job. Your son has been earning all A’s in these ap courses other than Math. Why would you consider having him drop down to acacemic in the course where he is excelling? Your counselor did not just put your son in his schedule. Your son agreed to it and so did you or it could have been changed.</p>

<p>It may be that you feel like an outsider at this school, but how does your son feel? Have you gone to Back to school night? PTA meetings? Met with the school counselor?
Volunteered at the high school?</p>

<p>I’d speak with my son, and then the teacher to see what they think are the issues with his math class. It may be turning in homework. It may be not showing work on tests. It may be not participating in class. It may be not quite getting the concepts. Many schools offer tutoring before school, after school, at lunch or study hall. </p>

<p>A last resort may be changing schools, but it sounds like he’s doing great here. So he’s getting a B in one AP class. And you haven’t yet explored with anyone reasons for this and see if this can be improved.</p>

<p>

I don’t know about MIT, but in general this “who needs homework” attitude will not serve your S well at all. If you think this is the way most schools operate, particularly with their engineering majors, you are sadly mistaken.</p>