I don’t see the “controversy” here. It’s an unprofessional way of speaking. It’s important to speak in a way that commands respect and authority, and upspeak and vocal fry detract from that just as much as saying “um” or “you know” every five seconds, or using “ain’t” or “ax” (for ask) or other unconventional grammar or pronunciations. I’m currently counseling a male staff member of mine who comes across as hesitant in front of clients and says “um” too much. I would see no reason why I wouldn’t do the same for a female who ends her sentences hesitantly.
I just see this as another form of code switching. If you can’t do it, you’ll be hampered. No one is saying you can’t ever upspeak or use vocal fry, just not at work, or at least not if you want to be taken seriously.
When I was in Germany our boss had a little talk about professional appearance. He did not want to have a dress code, as he said, he had shoulder length hair when he was young, but he wanted us all to realize that if we chose to wear our jeans or otherwise look unprofessional we would have to work twice as hard and be twice as good to convince our clients that we were serious.
@GMTplus7 I think someone should speak to the engineer about how she dresses. Presented as “you have a bright future ahead of you, and you would benefit from presenting yourself in a more professional manner. People make snap judgments based on how people dress. Fair or not, this is how it is, and you will progress well in your career if you dress more professionally.” It seems like a job for HR.
I had to look up these terms and in doing so I stumbled upon a great you tube video. If I had a daughter with these speech patterns I would show her this video. Here is the link to youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM70742x2Bs If this is not allowed on CC then simply google Amy Walker vocal fry and upspeak you tube.
Here’s one of the recent media stories claiming that criticism of these traits amounts to sexist “policing” of young women’s voices:
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I raised my eyebrows when the expert quoted in that article said that nobody is policing men’s language. Everybody’s language is policed all the time. All sorts of verbal tics, like saying “uh” are policed, as well as body language while speaking (don’t put your hand over your mouth, don’t put your hands in your pockets).
I think what’s a little different here is that these particular verbal habits (upspeak and vocal fry) are much more common among women than men. But I don’t see why that means its sexist to police them along with all other verbal habits that deviate from the business mainstream. Do we really want or need a separate “women’s language” like they have in colloquial Japanese?
I do have sympathy for the idea that the natural pitch of a person’s voice shouldn’t be policed. But these habits are not that.
here are a couple of videos that gives some examples
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I raised my eyebrows when the expert quoted in that article said that nobody is policing men’s language. Everybody’s language is policed all the time. All sorts of verbal tics, like saying “uh” are policed, as well as body language while speaking…
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Absolutely. And there are men whose careers are hampered by similar issues. Men with strong Joey Buttafuco accents and those with strong southern accents often find that they’re not taken seriously, so they are advised to adjust their voices.
Listening to young women speak these days, it is amazing how similarly they all speak, besides the valley girl stuff that has become common “Like, you know, like we were out last night”, and a kind of clench jaw speaking (it reminds me a lot of the character of Gloria in “Auntie Mame”, what used to be called the Vassar clench jaw way of speaking), and worse, the use of texting shorthand in real speech, OMG, LOL, etc.
It isn’t so much discriminatory as reflecting reality, that the way you speak affects how people see you. If you are talking like a 14 year old texting a girlfriend about the date she had last night, it is going to sound childish, if you are talking like some teen actress from some tweeny series on tv, it is going to hurt you. If you are in a professional field, and talk like Joe from the old neighborhood, it can hurt you as well. It all depends on what you are working on and where you are working, but if you are giving a presentation to senior managers and are using all kinds of slang-y language and the like, it is going to come off as unprofessional. If i am talking to tech coworkers, and we use salty language, it is one thing (pretty common in tech areas), but if I am presenting in a meeting across groups, I don’t use it at all, and make sure to use clear, simple speech (among other things, working in tech, lot of non native English speakers), it all depends. If I wear Jeans and a polo shirt to the office as my daily wear, where I am that is fine, but if I go to the home office, or went to a meeting offsite, I wouldn’t dress like that.
By the way, the same thing applies to young men, the ‘dude’ talk, the fake surfer boy lingo (it amazes me how things like Valley Girl english and surfer dude language a la “Fast Times at Ridgemont High” from long ago have become so common), saying “like, really” when I ask an opinion about something, isn’t going to sit well, depending on context.
It isn’t discrimination, it is when you are in a common venue, there can be a common culture, and you can argue that someone with a 180 IQ and a PHd could talk like a valley girl, but the reality is that that IQ and degree doesn’t convey who you are as much as how you speak and carry yourself, that is the reality. Sure, what someone does is obviously the most valuable thing, but other aspects count, the halo effect of when you meet someone is pretty darn powerful, and language is one of the tipping points of that.
I think it is sexist policing, because I believe the standard we expect everyone (men as well as women) to adhere to is a male speech standard. Of course, I may be absolutely wrong but that is what I think. And I would never advise a woman to do anything but use what we consider standard speech, though I am going to support her if she chooses not to do so.
No upspeak or vocal fry in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPVWmmVKVk0
But is what we’re talking about really a male speech standard, or just a standard standard? Is it a male standard because it focuses on a setting (business) that was formerly closed to women?
Since both upspeak and vocal fry are (I believe) fairly recent developments, I really don’t see how it is necessary to defend them just because they are more common among women.
I’m ok with their being “standard” ways of speaking, frankly. It’s sub-standard to use “ain’t” (except in limited circumstances for artistic effect) and it’s sub-standard to say “she axed me to go to the movies.” It’s sub-standard to use “um” or “like” repeatedly as a filler, and it’s sub-standard to have your sentences sound tentative by ending on a rising inflection (assuming you don’t intend them that way). There’s nothing male or female about those things.
A Fortune 200 company I worked for offered speech lessons to all its upper management. Heavy accents (whether regional or international), upspeak, “uhm”-elimination and body language were all addressed. And both men and women were encouraged to take part, though most didn’t need much encouragement since the effects were pretty dramatic and positive for those who took it.
I agree with GMTplus7 that unprofessional dress can be at the very least distracting. I noticed young TV reporters – even on the national networks – dressed in a way that raised my eyebrows. One reporter was wearing a T-shirt (a nice, tailored one, but still a T-shirt) and flip flops while reporting on a story set on a beach. Even though her dress was beach-visitor appropriate, I don’t think it was professionally appropriate. Maybe I’m just getting old.
Police away, I say.
I’m empowering the “um” and “like” (Umlike?) police, too. 
I don’t think it is discriminatory at all. There is such a thing as a well-modulated, effective speaking voice, and a person whose speech is dominated by vocal tics such as upspeak and vocal fry doesn’t have one. (As the marvelous Amy Walker points out. I could watch her for hours! )
Now, it is possible to use either of those things occasionally for effect. But that’s not what we’re talking about.
Listening to Amy Walker, I realized that my minister often uses upspeak in certain sorts of conversations, but she never uses it in the pulpit.
One I’m noticing in business…in aswer to a direct question, “So, the way we…”. Always starting wit “so”, like it is the new “um”.
Grow up and speak like an adult I say. I never did the valley thing. It’s silly and childish, and comes off that way whether you are speaking to an dmployer, a waiter or your future mother in law!
omg - I use “so” and “well” to start sentences here all the time. : (
My intent is not to sound pedantic. I guess I over-correct. Of course, perhaps there is no possibility I sound pedantic, that is just my imagination.
nottelling: What do you think? I keep hoping you will expand on what you wrote in first post.
Upspeak and vocal fry are learned habits. When I was younger, we used to make fun of Australian men and women (mostly surfers) who used upspeak. I think it spread from there to California surfers and then through TV - to everywhere else. I have heard it mostly on California based “reality” shows - think The Hills and Kardashians.
There are certain professions where strong, confident speaking voices are a necessity. I certainly think vocal coaching would be appropriate for many people - not just the upspeak and vocal fry. In fact, my son’s vocal coach has even given President Obama voice coaching!
Reading this thread made me feel young (which I am not really)! I don’t use “upspeak” to the best of my knowledge, but it does not grate on me at all. Rather, it sounds to me as though the speaker is asking for agreement, just to be polite–and not that the speaker is unsure. It’s more like a quick version of “Do you understand the point I am making, and do you agree?”
It’s probably just as well for young women to be “trained” out of the practice, if they work in an environment where it does hamper their being taken seriously. I have heard of this for young lawyers.
Insistence on “professional” dress can be taken to extremes. One of my colleagues was part of a team making a major pitch for funding, and they were told to wear suits and ties of a specific color, and to be careful to sit bolt upright, with their legs and feet together.
I agree with HRSMom about “So” as the starter for a response–some of my acquaintances open practically all of their comments that way. The other thing that seems odd to me is the starter “Sure.” In some circumstances, it makes good sense, e.g., “Can you do xyz?” with the answer, “Sure . . .” But in other circumstances, it’s just weird, e.g, “What is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle?” with the answer, “Sure . . .”