US HS students looking at possibly applying to UK schools

[NiceUnparticularMan]

@AnnaW

Does he know what he might want to study?

His main interest is Biology, but he also likes Latin/Classics.

So he will probably apply for a Biology course, but is currently looking only at Scottish universities where he could also take some Latin/Classics.

[Sergeac24]

@NiceUnparticularMan

Cambridge in turn seems notably less accommodating to US students. It typically requires five AP 5-scores AND a high enough ACT/SAT. The APs also have to be in your junior or senior year, which implies it is far more likely you will end up with a conditional offer. It also seems to have more special entrance exams than Oxford, which are only offered at a few test locations in the United States. I note Cambridge also specifically states in response to the issue of a HS not offering AP classes that it does not see this as a barrier as you can still sit for AP exams anyway, as a self-study student.

Chiming in months later, but wanted to ask you for more detail here, if possible. My son is a current junior at a west coast private that sounds similar to the one you describe (not many APs offered). We’ve been trying to figure out whether all five of the APs at Cambridge need to be related to the course of study applied for, or whether only 3 of the 5, with those three corresponding to the A levels required for that course of study. For example, if the course is natural sciences, the A levels are math and two sciences, which would correspond to, say, BC calc and AP bio, chem or physics. I don’t know this to be the case, I am only speculating. 5 APs in science and math seems steep: you’d need bio, chem, 2 physics and math, I would imagine, and no US student could complete that sequence in the final two years before matriculation unless they doubled up science both years, etc. We’ve had a hard time getting clarification on this. Maybe you have had more granular discussions that might shed light on what exactly is expected from US applicants in terms of APs?

[Twoin18]

They wouldn’t all be expected to be directly relevant. Typically for NatSci a UK student will have done either the Physical Sciences (Math, Phys, Chem) or the Biological Sciences (Math, Chem, Bio) at A-level and you specify which side you plan to focus on (you can’t realistically do a mix of both, given the course progression). So you need to cover one or the other (i.e. Calc BC plus either Phys C, preferably both Mechanics and E&M, and Chem or Calc BC plus Chem and Bio). They would like to see other APs corresponding to the core courses a UK student would have taken at GCSE (age 16), which would include English, Foreign Language and History. They won’t be enthused by non-core APs like Geography, Seminar, APES etc. and want more than Calc AB and Phys 1/2. Also, you should have 5s in virtually all APs that you take whether they are directly relevant or not (and you need to disclose all scores).

But unless you have a very good reason to apply to Cambridge, I would suggest Oxford is more favorably disposed to Americans, regardless of the pre-requisites. When I went to my college reunion, the admissions tutor openly said they didn’t want more applications from Americans for undergrad courses, and when I asked why, he mentioned a US applicant in math who they’d bent over backwards to accommodate (I take that to mean offering some financial aid) who had then turned them down to go to Harvard. They do not expect people to apply who will treat it as anything other than their top choice (the yield on offers from students who get the required grades is about 98%+ for UK and other nationalities, that year he said they lost 2 in a class of just over 200) and they’ll want to come away from an interview with the impression that you would attend if they make you an offer (so they look for applicants with a connection to the UK, e.g. whose parents are British/attended a British university, or at least with international exposure/European heritage). In contrast Oxford is seemingly more used to Americans turning them down to stay in the US (probably a consequence of the large numbers of strong PPE applicants). And Oxford is more likely to give an unconditional offer (or at least one where you’ve already satisfied the conditions). Cambridge gives harder offers than Oxford to UK students and expects a higher percentage of offer holders to fail to achieve them (and then attend somewhere else).

I’d add that any pre-interview tests shouldn’t be a barrier for Oxbridge, if your HS is cooperative. They can declare themselves a test center and administer the tests for either Oxford or Cambridge without you having to go elsewhere.

[NiceUnparticularMan]

This is more or less just corroboration, but we were told that AP Calc BC, Bio, Chem, CS, and Latin (the most realistic 5 for my S24 if he was going to try) would “probably” do it.

We never got far enough for it to be a real issue, but I did NOT know that about your HS being able to declare themselves a test center. Very helpful information.

[Sergeac24]

This is extremely helpful and is likely to save us a lot of grief. Thank you.