<p>Under my moniker “Ivy_Grad” I’m definitely a self-appointed Ivy Crusader. Yeah, that’s true.</p>
<p>Then again, you can’t assume that I don’t defend other schools under other aliases… =)</p>
<p>who said cal is better than michigan and uva? maybe cal and michigan have better graduate programs overall, but undergrad wise, with uva being 1/2 the size of both, and also having by far the most money (about 150% more than cal endowment/student and about 50% more than michigan endowment/student), i’d give it the edge. That being said, at the undergrad level with great schools its hard to differentiate in the first place…you simply don’t go into enough specialty i the undergrad level to say that 3 schools which are all great can be put in a 1 - 2 - 3 order.</p>
<p>I think a lot of you are splitting hairs over the relative prestige of the top 3 state schools. There all are so close - you can’t say ones better than the other. No one on the east coast thinks Cal is better than UVa, just as I’m sure no one on the west coast thinks UVa is better then Cal. I can assume that its the same in Michigan.</p>
<p>of course being a uva student i’m just tooting my own horn…but the fact remains i don’t think its fair to say that cal is absolutely better than uva and michigan for undergrad - as you are simply presenting your opinion and what you believe to be others opinions.</p>
<p>These guys site research stats as evidence of superiority when we all know its not relevant to undergrads. UVA is a victim of this point of view. Luckily they are wrong.</p>
<p>It’s definitely splitting hairs. They’re all great.</p>
<p>I just happen to think that Cal is the best amongst the three.</p>
<p>What do you mean, slipper1234?</p>
<p>And jags, care to show any source?</p>
<p>of what? the endowment? try wikipedia, and just search the 3 schools.</p>
<p>Berkeley - endowment 2.037 Billion, 23,000 under grads 10000 grad students</p>
<p>Virginia - endowment 3.2 billion (which i know excludes the law and darden endowments) and 13000 undergrad 6200 grad students</p>
<p>Michigan - endowment 4.9 billion 25,000 undergrad 14000 grad students</p>
<p>I’m not saying that because 1 has more money than the other makes one better than the other. And I can’t speak of what the difference is between the actual classes taught…being as i’ve only sat in classes at UVa. But I’m just saying that if the only objectional information you can give is that one school has stronger graduate programs then the other…how can you say its a better undergrad institution? Its comparing apples and oranges.</p>
<p>What about government funding (how much is given per year?) Is that information easy to find? And Mich’s or Berkeley’s law/business/ect schools, are they not attached to those figures?</p>
<p>Berkeley’s endowment is the state of California. And you said, “No one on the east coast thinks Cal is better than UVa.” I assume you mean among the laypeople, because people in academics sure think Cal is better than UVA. Just look at any peer assesment score.</p>
<p>My roommate from Delaware is here and not at U Va (or Brown).</p>
<p>lol DRab, i mean, i don’t know how you’re trying to swing this. But its a pretty well known fact UVa gets around than 8% of its funding from the state. I don’t know off hand how much the others do, but those figures are inclusive of government funding.</p>
<p>But regardless - even if berkeley, michigan, and virginia all have endowments separate for the grad schools - (i just know darden and law do at uva, not for the others from what i understand) - then we’ll look at the numbers just as an undergrad standpoints…its still uva with by far more money.</p>
<p>I’m really trying to be fair, no swinging. I do know that U Va, they say, is essentially self funded, and 8% is a very small amount of state support. I think Berkeley gets much more, and mich probably does, too, making your figures sort of unfair. I don’t know the politics or economics behind endowments that well, so sorry if it sounds like I’m being unfair or something.</p>
<p>Oh, I forgot, the president of Yale thinks Cal is one of the top five schools in the country. I believe he is on the east coast.</p>
<p>no, i’m saying that those endowment figures - are all including state funding. Virginia is actually at a disadvantage to these other schools in the state funding category. Luckily it has a ridiculous private doning sector.</p>
<p>i think a lot of you are getting the wrong idea of what I’m saying. I’m not bashing Cal lol. I’m just simply saying that I don’t think its fair to say that its better than UVa or Michigan for undergrad because it has great grad programs. I’m not saying its worse. I only mentioned money because thats a way of saying that “well if u look at these figures then a different school comes out on top.” It was merely a way of saying that all 3 are great - and you can’t say that one is definitively better than the other.</p>
<p>That’s so patronizing to say that people think Cal is better “because of its grad programs.”</p>
<p>I don’t think people say that Berkeley is better for undergrad because it has better grad programs. I think some (maybe many?) people think it’s better for undergrad because they think it has a higher quality undergraduate education. Whether or not they’re right, I don’t know. What they say is that all three are great. I have as much reason to believe this as that all Ivies are good schools. Hearesay works for me.</p>
<p>umm have you read anything ever written on any of these message boards? people site rankings of grad programs - saying X school has these top programs, so obviously its better. The only person being patronizing here is you.</p>
<p>A ton of people on this website - with absolutely no leg to stand on - say X school offers a better educational experience then Y school. Unless you’ve attended each school - and can without a shred of bias say that - then your opinion of whether or not 1 school is by far better than the other doesn’t mean anything to me. I’m just trying to dispel the notion that “oh X school is better then Y because thats what ive heard.” We’re not talking the difference between Berkeley and some satallite Michigan school. We’re talking about 3 great schools that are not at all light years ahead of each other.</p>
<p>People site grad ranking when they’re talking about GRAD SCHOOL. You site it because you want an excuse for why UVA is consistently rated below Cal. Sorry if that came off as patronizing.</p>
<p>LoL. here we go…if thats the case then why would “cal be one of the top 5 schools in the country” when there are 20 or so schools ranked ahead of it…<em>sigh</em></p>
<p>I’m not justifying rankings. I don’t think they’re accurate…especially when the formula changes every year. i don’t know why you’re trying to cut hairs between no. 21 and no. 22. Those ranking formulas are biased against public schools in the first place anyway.</p>
<p>“if thats the case then why would “cal be one of the top 5 schools in the country” when there are 20 or so schools ranked ahead of it”</p>
<p>You’d have to ask the president of Yale, as he was the one who said that. Also ask the former president of stanford, who said the same thing.</p>