<p>Penn is of course an amazing school, but it doesn’t deserve to be in the top five. I would say other than Wharton, Penn is equal to Brown and Cornell, which are about equal (and to the layman probably below Cornell and Brown because it sounds like a public school). Of course, this is USNews, and, as I have heard on cc, the editor is a Wharton grad, which is why it continues to be ranked outrageously high. This is what it should be: </p>
<p>hypsm
6. columbia
7. caltech
8. duke
9. dartmouth
10. brown, cornell, penn
11. northwestern
12. jhu, chicago
13. Wash U.
…</p>
<p>Dartmouth is the quirky ivy (apologies to Brown). Penn used to be the weak ivy, but it has significantly improved in reputation and academics in the past decade.</p>
<p>Dartmouth has more of an LAC feel and maybe its rural location is not in style as students prefer urban locations but its alumni network and school spirit are in the top 10 in the country with Princeton, Duke, ND, Williams etc.</p>
<p>Though admission applications are up a real challenge to the top privates is coming from Flagship State U honors programs. These programs are being crafted as schools within schools, with small class size, amazing research and other individual opportunities, close contact with faculty, etc. The student bodies in these programs tend to often have higher stats than students at the Ivies. As for quality faculty, often the faculty are of higher quality (an article in the Atlantic awhile back detailed how there were often more high quality faculty at major state U’s than at many Ivies and privates, and the honors programs are formally giving students direct access to them). They are establishing great track records for graduation rate and grad and professional school placement. With all this, they are often 1/3 the cost of an Ivy. Much to my surprise, several Ivy accepted students we know, chose the local State U honors program, and for a couple it was not about the money. As these programs mature and their track records become known, I suspect the privates to begin feeling the heat.</p>
<p>"Tenure-track faculty members teach only 40 percent of classes in the University of Pennsylvania’s School of Arts and Sciences, according to a report by a graduate-student union at Penn that has been fighting for university recognition. Lecturers on short-term contracts teach almost the same amount, the report says. </p>
<p>As a result, the group argues, students at Penn are not getting the education they are paying for."
…" </p>
<p>The report is similar to one compiled in 2000 by the Coalition on the Academic Workforce about the broad use of non-tenure-track faculty members to teach courses in many humanities and social-science disciplines (The Chronicle, November 22, 2000). Another similar report, compiled in 1999 by graduate students at Yale University, said that tenure-track professors taught only 30 percent of courses there (The Chronicle, March 30, 1999). "</p>
<p>Why is saying Dartmouth is better than Penn a slap in the face? Dartmouth beats penn in many areas pertaining to actual benefits and outside of tri-state area its more selective. Its just as much a slap in the face to say Penn is better than Dartmouth.</p>
<p>The point is they are equal. And how is Dartmouth the quirky Ivy? I guess 17 yr olds don’t know much…</p>
<p>Why is Duke so high? I don’t mean to slam Duke or anything, but before I started the college process, I’d barely heard of it. The only thing I knew was Duke=basketball. I had not idea it was above some of the ivys. </p>
<p>From a curious and nonthreatening perspective, what makes Duke so great?</p>
<p>For one it’s all out on its own the middle of nowhere. I know what you’re saying “what about Cornell?” well, Dartmouth makes Cornell’s environment look like a freaking city. Compared to the rest of the ivies Dartmouth is tiny. Only 5,500 undergrads. In addition, Dartmouth’s graduate programs are limited when compared to the extensive Masters and beyond curriculum of the other ivy league schools.</p>
<p>Heavenwood, I agree that Dartmouth is not the “quirky” Ivy. Brown, maybe even Columbia or Cornell…but not Dartmouth. And you are correct in saying that Dartmouth is tiny. It is indeed the smallest Ivy. But Dartmouth onyl has 4,000 undergrads. 5,500 is the total size of Dartmouth college (5,700 to be precise), including its MBA program and its graduate programs in the Sciences.</p>
Only people from outside California call UCLA “UC Los Angeles.” The same goes for calling it “Southern California.” Most people refer to it as USC or SC. I just found that bit funny.</p>