Us news rankings 2011

House_of_London · August 12, 2010, 6:57pm

MK82492, i don’t think seadog.overseas really knows what he/she is talking about. Maybe if he goes to a third tier school and tries to slap that on his resume he would realize that undergraduate institutions matter.

I wish people realized that in an economy like this, the schools with the tightest and strongest alumni network actually have the highest value and should be top priority for those who care about their job prospects. And frankly, the top 50 or so schools are the main providers of this.

MyOpinion · August 12, 2010, 10:49pm

This is DEFINITELY worth repeating.

Alexandre · August 12, 2010, 11:52pm

MK82492, employers sometimes care about where young (entry-level) candidates went to college, but they do not determine quality by looking at rankings. Each company/department will have its own list of top colleges based on its ties to their particular industry and strengths of relevant programs.

TheSaiyans, I have not seen many Michigan students/alums claim that Michigan is in the same league as Harvard and Stanford.

xiggi · August 13, 2010, 12:09am

That would be true, except that the definition of a term such as the “same league” seems to be quite subjective. What would this “same league” be? The restrictive HYPS or the … top 30 schools as ranked by USNews?

Here is a sure way to demonstrate how this works. I make a claim and you tell me if you agree or disagree. No ifs or buts. No debates.

To establish that the schools are not in the same league, I claim that the undergraduate student body of Michigan has NOTHING in common to Harvard’s or Stanford’s. The student bodies are neither comparable nor interchangeable.

Your reply, Alexandre … True or False? I agree or I disagree?

Alexandre · August 13, 2010, 12:30am

"the undergraduate student body of Michigan has NOTHING in common to Harvard’s or Stanford’s. The student bodies are neither comparable nor interchangeable. "

False. The top 15%-25% of Michigan student body is on par with Harvard’s or Stanford’s student body, so there is an overlap…and a significant one at that. But I was referring to academic quality, not quality of student body. Michigan does not have the same academic standing as Harvard or Stanford. Michigan’s PA is 4.4, compared to H and Ss PA of 4.9. Michigan’s faculty is not quite as strong, nor does it have the resources that Harvard and Stanford have.

Michigan is not in the same league as top 5, but it is one of the top 30 universities. Purely as an academic institution, I would say Michigan is arguably among the top 10. But there is a significant drop between the top 5 and the rest of the top 30.

xiggi · August 13, 2010, 1:29am

I knew you could not help yourself, Alexandre.

The evidence that there EXISTS an overlap in the enrolled student body is flimsy at best, and based on flawed assumptions. To call it significant is ludicrous. The sole basis to establish an overlap is that the top 10-15% of the enrolled students at Michigan coincide with the bottom quartile at H/S based on test scores, and COULD potentially have been admitted at Harvard or Stanford . The reality is that most of the 93% of students rejected at Harvard or Stanford COULD have been admitted, but they weren’t.

Without any verifiable and quantifiable evidence of the size of the overlap, it is NOT possible for you to claim such overlap. Please remember that the overlap has to represent students who WERE ADMITTED at either Harvard or Stanford, but opted to attend Michigan. The “could have” or “should have” is absolutely meaningless. You cannot take your “possible” 1,000 or 1,500 students as the overlap group; this number has to be filtered by the same standards applied by H and S, and the result is at best around 100 students. Now, you have your true overlap group. How much of a percentage is 100 over the admitted students in the Class of 2014?

rjkofnovi · August 13, 2010, 1:43am

To establish that the schools are not in the same league, I claim that the undergraduate student body of Michigan has NOTHING in common to Harvard’s or Stanford’s. The student bodies are neither comparable nor interchangeable.

What does that prove? Alexandre never claimed that Michigan was in the “same league” as Harvard or Stanford academically or in terms of overall student body. Your arguments are meaningless. Now why don’t you try to address his comments on overall academic quality of Michigan as compared to most of the other schools in the top 30?

Schmaltz · August 13, 2010, 1:46am

Michigan has thousands of students who are smarter than most of the hooked students at H and S.

TheSaiyans666 · August 13, 2010, 1:50am

Sorry, I meant Berkeley, although I somehow thought in my head that Michigan and Cal were kinda viewed similarly in these boards. Is it just me? Idk. I’ll refrain from your heated debate with xiggi :p

<h2>Yeah, I think so too. And so I will repeat it again. :)</h2>

**Yeah, to an extent, I guess rankings don’t really matter. Even if WashU is ranked higher than Brown, people will still think Brown is more elite. CCers and probably some high school kids put it along with the “Rice, Emory, Vandy, and JHU” 3rd class group or w/e :rolleyes:

Apparently Penn, ranked 4 in 2010, was called the “doormat of Ivies” according to some user here if I recall. I couldn’t believe the obnoxious hate UPenn recieved in the “IvyGate” blog forums claiming its light years away from Stanford and MIT’s level. Just ridiculous.

And don’t even get me started on Duke. It gets unbelievably bashed because some people here (who have claimed to have done their Masters/PhD in HYPSM or Berkeley) judge Duke by the little “Dookie kids” who advertise it albiet over-enthusiastically. I don’t even know what these “accomplished people” are doing wasting their time on these forums.

Cornell is probably the one getting the most hate. I’ve heard bitter people around these forums and IvyGate wanting to kick it out of the Ivy League. People admonish its public programs and immediately point out how its in the “middle of nowhere.” Little do they realize that that doesn’t stop Yahoo! and Google to go there for recruiting.

Berkeley’s #21 rank doesn’t stop Berkeley CC posters from putting its programs up with Harvard and Stanford. People around the country still view it unbelievably highly. Even higher than Emory, Vanderbilt, and Rice which are all ranked higher.

UMichigan is projected very highly among these forums even if its not ranked in top 25.

Does this all really matter? Even if Zoey University ended up #1. Are you really going to change it to HYPSMZ?**

compaq10 · August 13, 2010, 1:51am

[Michigan has thousands of students who are smarter than most of the hooked students at H and S. ]

^ correct

xiggi · August 13, 2010, 1:57am

Glad to oblige … Here you go:

Michigan is not in the same league as the top schools, but it is one of the top 30 universities in the country.

And, if you want to know, in a famous and lengthy thread on CC debating graduate programs, I ranked Michigan’s graduate among the best 12 universities in the world.

Happy now?

rjkofnovi · August 13, 2010, 1:58am

“Michigan is not in the same league as the top schools”

Now I would like to know which schools you think are the top schools that are out of Michigan’s league academically? :-)

Sparkeye7 · August 13, 2010, 1:59am

Ladies and Gents,

Today is Friday, the 13th!!! lol
And YES, I did see a ‘Transylvania’ thread surfacing…@_@"

Anyway, my gut tells me that the official ranking (leaked) should be out any minute now!!! :)

xiggi · August 13, 2010, 2:08am

Rjk, you should know that it was you that I had in mind when I wrote this earlier: “That would be true, except that the definition of a term such as the “same league” seems to be quite subjective. What would this “same league” be? The restrictive HYPS or the … top 30 schools as ranked by USNews?”

Feel free to create the “league” that makes you happy. I have no interest in discussing it with you.

rjkofnovi · August 13, 2010, 2:14am

“Michigan is not in the same league as the top schools, but it is one of the top 30 universities in the country.”

Is that my direct quote or yours? However, I can understand why you don’t want to answer the question.

xiggi · August 13, 2010, 2:21am

What are you TRYING to say?

I answered your question once directly and once indirectly.

rjkofnovi · August 13, 2010, 2:32am

^^^You already made it quite clear that you didn’t care to discuss YOUR comment with me. I guess we’ll just leave it at that.

fallenchemist · August 13, 2010, 7:18am

You must not have been out in the career world much yet. If you had, you would find that thousands of employers think the local/regional universities are simply fabulous, and that many of the employers from, e.g. Texas, Arizona, and Alabama don’t know Washington University from University of Washington from George Washington. Most of these people don’t have time and couldn’t care less about the USNWR rankings. It makes me laugh thing about a busy CEO or entrepreneur studying the USNWR rankings to see from what schools he should be hiring graduates. And please don’t bring up Harvard, Yale, and the very small number of others that are so famous that USNWR has no impact. It could have never existed and they would still be Harvard, Yale, etc. That accounts for a teeny tiny fraction of graduates looking for work. I am talking about the WUSTL’s, Chicago’s, BC’s, etc. You would be absolutely shocked, I suspect, at how many hiring managers don’t have a clue about the quality of these schools. Many think Chicago is a public school, that just as many or more get BC confused with BU.

Sure, there are exceptions for certain fields where the reputation of the school matters more, but these tend to be very specialized. In any case, once you are past your first hire it becomes even less important. Then it is experience and what you accomplished.

rjkofnovi · August 13, 2010, 8:14am

“rjkofnovi, no one WANTS to discuss with you. Xiggi perfectly stated his concerns and his thoughts. You’re being a clueless imbecile once again.”

Awwww, you must have just checked out the ranking of Duke by the ARWU.

rjkofnovi · August 13, 2010, 8:23am

Naming universities in your mind “above UMich” will only crush your self-esteem and will provoke more arguments.

I just wanted to know which schools other than HYPSM, by name of course, Xiggi feels are in a different league academically than Michigan. He refused to answer answer the question directly. That’s his choice.

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