<p>i have 12 ap’s compared to the average 2/3 in the top 20 of my school, and 182.5 credits by grad compared to 120 necessary, but my sat’s aren’t anything mindboggling… 1510 m+v which seems to be below average on the cc harvard board… what happens to those of us in the middle 
<em>sigh</em></p>
<p>1510 m + v is a damn good score (though, what about your writing score?); and 12 aps are really impressive if you’re doing well in them. I wouldn’t worry about those particular factors.</p>
<p>670 writing, my blemish, thank god it’s the first year it was included, or else that would’ve screwed me over big time… 12 ap’s only 5 taken so far… i have 5 this year (physics M + C, and microeconomics/humangeography) both count as 2 exams… i have 5,5,5,5,4… but yea… the rank of 22 hurts</p>
<p>Saxfreq,</p>
<p>I have block scheduling (4 classes max)…and 6 Aps this year and 2 honors this year. I hope this will really give me a push in the admissions. I did this with online enrichment. So will a DOUBLE school schedule really catch their eye? before that I had 5 APs and 2 honors classes junior year and 2 Aps and 2 honors classes sophomore year. I hope they understand block sheduling and how taking a double course load is crazy hard…especially with so much community involvement.</p>
<p>Saxfreq…will this reall be an impresser because they really value the senior year schedule?</p>
<p>Also, will high SAT subject tests compensate for lower SAT/ACT if you come from a school with a bad SAT average 990? Will the subject test scores prove to them that the classes I took are not easy crap? I mean if you come from a rural area (with limited resources) and break 740/750s on subject tests while taking a trillion Aps but get something amid a 1250 will they cut ya some slack…especially since I am Puerto Rican (hate to bring race back in to play but it is a big factor).</p>
<p>At my kids h.s., over the past 4 years, three applicants have gotten into Harvard: two were ranked #3 and the valedictorian’s of their years were rejected. When my son applied as val last year, it was therefore felt that his rank would jinx him…thankfully, that was not the case!</p>
<p>Valedictorian traditionally goes to the student with the highest GPA, but it varies from school to school. At my high school, for example, the valedictorian is elected by the student body out of the top 15% of the graduating class.</p>
<p>“Also, will high SAT subject tests compensate for lower SAT/ACT if you come from a school with a bad SAT average 990? Will the subject test scores prove to them that the classes I took are not easy crap?”</p>
<p>Sure, I’ve actually heard having above 770 with some 800s for SATIIs is a solid addition to your resume. (Although I’m not precisely sure how much it counts for or whether it’ll make up for your SATs).</p>
<p>But probably strong SATIIs along with 5’s on AP tests (you seem to be taking a lot of AP classes) would look great.</p>
<p>pretty specific, but what happens if you have an a+ in physics c 1st quarter, a 5 on the physics b exam… BUT an 690 physics sat II, and a b in physics b?</p>
<p>apfreak,</p>
<p>short answer: yes, they’ll be impressed.</p>
<p>longer answer: many Harvard applicants are just as impressive, if not more so. In other words, I hope you really put some time and thought into your essays, resum</p>
<p>Sure they will be but I bet they came form a richer school with greater opportunities and a high SAT average. So of course they would be inflated by their riches to look better.</p>
<p>My recs were breathtaking though. My teachers and counselors love me and knew me VERY well. I even worked with them in writing it…meaning I gave them specific info (not stuff for some general letter) on what they should focus on…including certain advantages in admissions like rural area, low SAT average with little resources, etc. I think they were brilliantly written and I thank my teachers for working so hard on them! My essays were unique. It involved my culture and my church…very specific things that not many applicants can talk about (i’d have to tell you about my church for you to understand).</p>
<p>“670 writing, my blemish, thank god it’s the first year it was included, or else that would’ve screwed me over big time”</p>
<p>670 is still 650+. I wouldn’t worry about it.</p>
<p>I hope class rank doesn’t matter that much when it comes down to a competitive school. I’m ranked maybe 20 out of 500, which is top 5%.</p>
<p>hey gxing, same boat :)</p>
<p>Quick question: How does the “wealth” of the school dictate standardized test score? I thought that standardized tests were designed to measure basic skills and intelligence, things common across all schools. I know, for example, that I knew everything I needed to know for the ACT by the time I finished 8th grade. Even accounting for a less advanced track availible in other areas, by the end of junior year people should still have the basic skills down. I go to a decent school system where many people do well, and I know exactly one person who has stressed about SAT/ACT. The rest of us don’t care. We don’t prepare in class, outside of class, take prep classes, etc. I don’t really see us having an advantage due to wealth or anything like that. I think the correlation is not causal; people who have done well live in districts that are better-off thanks to their taxes; these individuals often have kids who are intelligent (which is to some [limited] degree a function of heredity), and who thus score well on these tests.</p>
<p>The wealth of the school is related to the quality of teaching, teaching materials, enrichment activities, etc. All of these things help boost students’ scores.</p>
<p>It also is related to parental education as typically the wealthier schools are in wealthier neighborhoods (schools are supported by property taxes). Usually the pepple living in the wealthier neighborhoods have jobs such as being executives, lawyers, doctors, which require a great deal of education.</p>
<p>Wealthier schools also tend to have more stable student populations, so teachers don’t have to spend a lot of time helping new kids adjust to school.</p>
<p>scran,
I bet there’s a good chance that you come from a home with books and other reading material. I imagine that your parents may have taken you to plays, museums, educational trips. Your parents probably speak excellent standard English and when deciding where to live sought out and could afford to live in a good school district where the teachers are certified in the subjects that they teach, where there is strong parental involvement, where there are well equipped science labs etc.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, poor kids who may be equally intelligent as you may be in homes that lack books, have parents who don’t speak standard English, may never visit museums or do similar activities, may have to switch schools a couple of times a year due to the family’s instability, and may have teachers who barely passed the certification exams, make major grammatical problems in their English useage and are not teaching the subjects that they are certified for. </p>
<p>They also are likely to have much more behavior problems in their classes (due to more students having very young parents who don’t know how to parent, teachers who aren’t that experienced, and students coming from unstable families and having parents who aren’t involved at all in the school system).</p>
<p>but you cant just justify everything on poverty. One should be able to atleast attain decent scores, at least 1350. If poverty is an issue, and let me be the first to tell you it is a very big issue, then struggling and getting to the top makes you that much stronger, and should be a basis for some preferential treatment, but by struggling that hard one should persume you are doing your best and that is all that counts. Maximizing your opporunities. 1350, 3.8, some APs,EC family income less than 15,000 = 1580, 4.0, a lot APs, great EC family income 150,000</p>
<p>I definitely have nothing agianst Apfreak, but i would just rather say that of course you being puerto rican, rural, and seemingly coming from a bad school is all beneficial and will definitely give you a good shot at Harvard. But that is all it is, just a good shot. To tell you the truth, there are many people who come from worse situations, your schools SAT average SAT is 250 points above my own; 740, and 350 points above deep inner city ghetto schools which often have between 600-650. So i think you should focus much more on bringing your stats and everything up to par and try very hard to write good essays, have good interviews, because a sob story doesnt really get you anywhere. But im not trying to bash you because YOU MIGHT END UP AT HARVARD, but its just a might like almost everyone else on this board except that double legacy from Andover.</p>
<p>“but what happens if you have an a+ in physics c 1st quarter, a 5 on the physics b exam… BUT an 690 physics sat II, and a b in physics b”</p>
<p>I got a 5 on Physics B, and a 690 on SAT II as well, but A+s in the year. Taking Physics C this year too. The B in school Physics is not impressive. The 5 will balance off with a 690 Physics only of the school grades are high - this is what I was told by an adcom at a top school.</p>
<p>“but you cant just justify everything on poverty.”</p>
<p>I don’t think NSM is justifying everything on poverty so much as she is explaining that innate intelligence can be–CAN BE–hindered by circumstance, and that students should not be considered less intelligent or less qualified purely because of that. She makes a really good point about things like books or a student’s living in an environment that is conducive to learning and succeeding. These things definitely make a difference. </p>
<p>Bottom line: Harvard won’t accept complete idiots. Common sense, on the other hand – well, if only there were a standardized test for such a thing.</p>