Varsity Sport Vent!

Parent Cafe
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<p>My daughter played three varsity sports every year of high school (one was tennis in fact). Every kid on the team went to every race, game, or match, whether they played or not. I don’t recall homework ever being done on the sidelines (but it may have been done on the long bus rides…which are long distances here given it is a rural area). In my view, it is about being on the team and not simply being the player. I know for tennis, for example, they watched one another’s matches and cheered or discussed them on the side lines. For soccer, lots of cheering too. And some times someone may go in for someone else. Varsity Tennis IS a team sport. It is not like entering an independent match at all. </p>

<p>IF your D never plays and is frustrated, she has to weigh if she really wants to be on the team. But being on the team may not always mean playing and if not, it may not be that you can do something else during that time. There are team elements to the entire experience. Also, out of five hours, I imagine maybe only 3 hours were the match and the rest was travel and perhaps homework is allowed to be done on the bus. I recall we would drive to meets and games to support the team and our kid could not even ride home in our car to do homework but had to ride the bus. However, often, because our D was not ONLY in sports, she’d have to travel very long distances after the games to another activity such as dance class or piano lessons and would get permission to ride in our car as she was not heading to the same destination after the match (and was going in different direction which means very far away given where we live and where each activity is located). She did do homework in the car but she also did it very late into the night. </p>

<p>My D also played a Varsity sport in college which entailed going away the entire weekend every weekend for two months and that is a lot of hours. During the actual races, nobody did homework but during the times in between, they could. But most of the weekend had NO time for homework until they got back to campus Sunday night. </p>

<p>These sports are heavy time commitments and involve much time management. My D who did them all through school, had no free time in HS at all (she was in many other things besides three sports and had a ton of homework too). So, the time AT her sport, was sorta her “social” time and perhaps you can think of it that way. And that is not a waste of time. She bonded with the kids on the team and supported each one in team spirit and working on goals and so on.</p>

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<p>soozievt - that was perfectly said.
Agree that is about being on the team. It’s disrespectful to the team to be sitting on the bench doing homework (or anything else).<br>
Sports teach teamwork and time management. My D’s were athlete as well - in season is very time consuming. My kids would leave the house before 7 am and sometimes not return until 10 pm on a school day. I thought it was insane - working folks don’t work a 16 hour day!<br>
Pizzagirl - you seem bothered by this more than your daughter - I get that as a parent. Good for her though by not quitting she is proving to you she has tenacity and fortitude. It is character building - esp for those who warm the bench!</p>

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<p>This is an interesting topic to me. Personally I wonder sometimes why athletics is so intertwined with public high school education even though I had a sport back in my day and was state ranked and I have 3 boys who are very active in their chosen sports. I feel bad when they are up late at night finishing up homework because of “away” meets, but I also see the emphasis the coaches and athletic directors put on maintaining academics. Sometimes the kids would bring their iPods to “turn out” on the bus and get some work done, but more often or not they wouldn’t work on the bus ride. The bus ride was the “social” aspect of athletics. I think whether or not the kids participate is up to them. They know what it takes to fit the homework and studying in and if they don’t want to paricipate then I’m OK if they drop a sport. If your kiddo wants to quick I’m on the side that says to let them. The commitment is too great to be blah about the team. I do understand now, more than earlier the benefit of team sports. I also understand why coaches want the kids to pay attention and support the other members of a team. This is also a valuable lesson, putting aside what an individiual thinks is more important to support others who are doing something important. There are lessons everywhere in team sports that can be valuable. I also had to stop and ask myself if realistically hour for hour the kids would substitute “homework/studying” for the time they spend on their sport and the answer is no, that would not happen which also sways me more to the pro-sport side. Finally there is truth to mind and body strength and finding that equilibrium.</p>

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<p>2boysima
Member
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 691
“it seemed like such a waste of time and a pressure on already overloaded kids.”</p>

<p>So maybe…for some of these overloaded kids…the few hours to just sit and chat (according to the OP) is actually beneficial…the get some downtime!"</p>

<p>Spoken like someone who isn’t a Myers Briggs J. It’s not relaxing downtime for me when something needs to be done and idleness is enforced!</p>

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<p>Personally I think the coach should let them do HW. At my S’s school he is on the JV football team but must suit up and attend all varsity games. He will never play, but all JV players are required to be there in uniform. S has an opportunity to work reffing flag football Friday nights making pretty good money which has to pass on so he can stand around in uniform cheering the varsity kids. I don’t get it, but that’s the system.</p>

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<p>Pizza, I’m an INTJ so I “get” your thinking believe me. I do have a “rule” that if the kids have grade slippage during their season I will go to the school and meet with the Athletic Director and principal. My showing up at their school is one of their greatest fears in life LOL and is enough pressure to keep them on an even keel and dealing with stuff. So far, S1 and S2 have managed to get through high school without me showing up at their school and S3 knows that I would do it if necessary so he’s “all good.”</p>

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<p>Your coach is entirely off-base. Academics do take priority and it is incumbent upon your D’s coach to keep his charges in a position where they can succeed academically as well as athletically.</p>

<p>My daughters (one now in college, the other a HS sophomore) also play tennis. Their coaches, with the encouragement of the school administration, has always made it a rule that when not playing they either sit quietly and watch their teamates or work on their homework. League rules and tennis etiquette preclude the sort of “audience participation” you find at a football or basketball game so doing homework is viewed as an excellent way to reinforce proper decorum and quiet so that the girls who are playing can focus on their match and those who are not can engage in something productive.</p>

<p>The most surprising thing about your situation is that the coach is a teacher in one of the more difficult academic cores. If you are concerned about repercusions if you address this issue with him directly, you might have a talk with the principal or AD. I would also check your school’s Code of Conduct for student-athletes to see if it addresses the homework issue and whether or not the tennis coach is adhering to school policy or not. </p>

<p>My kids have loved being part of the tennis team but our rule is that if any extracurricular activity has a negative impact on grades it is the EC that goes, not our academic expectations.</p>

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<p>At least, they could practice at school. My D. had to practice with the club, since her school did not have her sport. She requested to register team and was able to represent her HS as one person team. Sometime I had to pay to her rides from school to club, since I was not making there on-time from work. Kids/families do whatever, if kids have passion for something. Her practice/travel was taking at least 3+ hours every weekday + Saturday with tons of meets for both HS and club and of course ton of money. You either do it as a family and enjoy it, or do not even attempt to think about it because of all commitment involved. D. (college junior) does not participate in her sport any more because of busy enourmously busy at college with academics and a lot of EC’s. However, sometime she just use it as workout and always enjoys it. D. has never been after any kind of sprot related scholarships, she has full tuition Merit scholarship. All of it was done just for the love it from age of 5 thru freshman year at college.</p>

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<p>I think the team culture varies by school and sport. For field sports there is a set game duration, usually 60-90 minutes. This is not terribly long, and substitute players do need to watch the game and be aware of what’s happening. If/when the coach says “John, go in for Sam,” in order to be effective, John has to know where Sam is playing and how his style of play has been working or failing, who he’s guarding and how the opponent is playing, what the overall game dynamic has been, etc. So doing homework in this scenario is not practical. Even if the kid won’t be put in, it is possible for him to learn from watching. </p>

<p>But when there’s a meet format where a particular athlete might only be performing for a few minutes out of 7 hours, it seems wrong to forbid them to do any homework. Walking around the course/pool /track or whatever, possibly in the hot sun, and cheering for that long will tire a kid out for his own races. However, sometimes it’s just uncool to do homework, so the kids “waste” time chatting, listening to their eyepods, texting, etc. I ran into a woman who son runs x-c with D. She commented on how D was sitting all by herself at the meet with her back against a tree, doing homework. She seemed to think it was pathetic. Another father also said something about it on another occasion–seemed to think she was anti-social or nerdy. D usually doesn’t do homework for that reason, but there are times when she has no choice.</p>

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<p>time to call it quits and maybe find something else to do. regardless, it is a waste of her time. If she can say she was on the tennis team for 3 years that is good enough for 99% of college admissions offices, unless she is looking to be recruited. if not, time to move on and focus on what IS most important-her grades and classes in this all important year. Let her know you fully support her decision to leave tennis behind.</p>

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<p>All the perspectives are interesting to read. </p>

<p>Having attended varsity tennis matches countless times, the kids who were not in the middle of their own match, did watch and they learned from it and were supporting one another and so on. It is part of being on the team, not just the time you are in the middle of your own match. </p>

<p>For my D, even tennis practice involved a lot of time because our school did not have courts and the team had to travel by bus just to a sports complex at a resort to practice each day. </p>

<p>Someone mentioned that other than the student’s own few minutes of competition, a student should be able to do other things like homework. Speaking from personal experience, my D was also on the Varsity Alpine Ski Team. These are ALL DAY events. One’s own race runs (you get two), take about one minute each. But much time is spent supporting the team. For instance, when the boys’ team had their race runs, the girls ran jackets up and down the race course (you remove jackets to race in a ski race suit). As well, when the boys raced, all the girls had to be what are called “gate keepers” who keep track on the hill if all racers legally went around the gate and repair torn down gates and such during the race. Also, between race runs, you had to inspect the course on the hill. You got to go inside for lunch and to defrost. :smiley: Also, when not your turn, you cheered for not only your own team, but for racers from other schools (good sportsmanship). There was no time to do homework, Nobody had it with them. </p>

<p>Also, where we live, the travel for games, matches, races and so on could be very far as it is a rural state. The shortest distance would be 45 min. away and typically the longest would be 90 min. away (though would be longer than that if state level competition which she was in for all three sports too but I was just talking regular season). So, the amount of hours afternoon, evening and weekend were great between practices, games, travel. </p>

<p>For my own child, while in a varsity sport throughout the entire year, it was not the only EC with a big commitment. She also was in a ski training program outside of school on Sundays with all day races too far away. After her sports and games, she also had piano lessons, clarinet lessons, several dance classes out of town and was in band, wind ensemble and jazz band, and student council, etc. Then there was homework…avg. of about 4 hours per night midweek and about 12 hours on the weekends, and practicing two instruments. It was a very full life. Time management was essential. It is not for all people. Her grades were not impacted…in fact, had a perfect 4.0 (school did not weight) in the hardest track classes. In lots of ways, this prepared her for college where she was in heavy duty ECs there too. Though one easier thing at college was that the number of class hours were less! </p>

<p>Yes, it is hard to think that they can’t do homework at these events but being on a team means your attention is with the team. If someone really wishes to not be there, they should not participate. Sports are optional. I also thought of my kids’ EC activities as their social time, even if structured. Time on the sidelines is social in nature too. </p>

<p>I also don’t think this is very specific to sports either. Kids who rehearse theater productions and stuff like that also have huge time commitments where they cannot do homework. It is the nature of the beast. Yes, it is hard to get home at 9 PM and have four hours of homework. I don’t know how my kids even did it! But they did. If someone feels this is not working for themselves, then they should consider what they want to give up (can’t give up academics of course). Activities are optional though. My kids would never give up their ECs as they loved them so much. They had no free time but again, I think their time going to ECs was their fun time and it was with other like minded kids who shared such interests.</p>

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<p>Soozie^ you bring back memories of one of the drama coaches in my HS - I had a problem with getting a ride home after the rehearsals ended, and they were late till 10 or 11 pm. My parents were asleep by then! He said to me that it had to be a labor of love. I don’t think he got it that I had no transportation, but I got what he meant about loving the time spent working on the production.</p>

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<p>

Oh my! All these years I thought it was just my kids’ drama coach being mean. LOL</p>

<p>It doesn’t matter if it’s football or swimming during a competition teammates are teammates and only teammates. It’s inappropriate for teammates to be doing homework, texting their boyfriend or reading People. They need to focus on the team. If they can’t/won’t do that then they should quit.
If kids schedule their time carefully, the can take Honors and AP classes, get it all done and still get good grades. The good students do it. They give up other stuff - like TV and they spend their weekends on homework and projects. They learn to plan ahead, focus and that there is a time and place for everything in their lives - no excuses.<br>
For kids who spend their high school years running from class to sports to drama to band to Mock Trial etc, etc - it’s most often harder on the parent than their student. They do it because they love it, their friends are doing it and it keeps them busy.</p>

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<p>I disagree with the idea that the tennis players be prohibited from doing HW. My D’s coach allowed the non-playing girls to do HW and it didn’t detract from the team at all. My D was a starter who generally was playing and there was no negative impact in the remaining girls doing HW while she played. </p>

<p>It’s unrealistic to think that roughly a dozen or so non-playing girls (usually more of them during home games and fewer during away games) are going to stand there simply ‘supporting’ their teammates for hours. What’s ‘supporting’ anyway - ‘cheering’? This would only be distracting to the players when done to excess. They’re also likely to learn little by simply watching the other girls play tennis. Moreover, with tennis, many of the players are on the ‘far courts’ where no one can really see them anyway. </p>

<p>If the girls aren’t playing and aren’t doing HW they’ll end up simply gabbing with each other about things not related to tennis anyway. The exception is if the facility has spare courts where a few teammates might be able to practice against each other or play against a practice wall but even that typically wouldn’t go on for the hours of a match and would be limited by the number of available courts.</p>

<p>I don’t see anything wrong with a HS coach taking a more practical and realistic approach to the games and allowing the non-players to do HW. My D’s coach was also an AP math teacher and I think he understood the HW load these girls can be under (it seems that a fair number of the girl tennis players are taking heavier course loads).</p>

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<p>My now graduated daughter played varsity tennis. The coach was very lenient with them in that books were open especially during low level matches. Also, although she was a starter, she got subbed out several times when they weren’t playing against a very competitive team. In other words, coach knew it was important to get all players involved. During intense matches that mattered, everyone was involved in cheering on the starters. When my daughter was subbed out, coach let her leave early if she had to go, but most of the time she stayed to encourage her teammates. I guess, as the mom of two athletic girls (and not having been the least bit interested in athletics myself) I have learned to appreciate the importance and value of athletics. First, learning to be supportive of others. Second, learning time management. Third, getting the workout so important to physical and emotional health. If these teachings don’t outweigh the pain of time spent, she should by all means stop playing.</p>

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<p>Both my daughters were varsity tennis players and on the national junior tennis circuit. Their teams made CIF playoffs/championships all the years that they were there. One or two of the players went pro (for a while). Number 1: Assuming that the team fields 3 singles matches and 3 doubles matches it is appropriate that, if the match is tight…the starters play all the way through. Number 2: If it is an easy match there should be substitutions so that the less talented players have a chance to play. If it is a tight match the extra players should be involved and cheering their TEAMMATES on. That is called involvement. (What if your child is asked to sub in a match? Shouldn’t your child be able to ascertain the strengths weaknesses of the opponent? Or should your child, the sub, play mindless tennis?</p>

<p>Let’s go away from sports and make it…theater. Your kid is the understudy who has to go on but hasn’t watched the play, didn’t learn the lines…but there he/she is…in the wings about the blow the performance.</p>

<p>ECs, be they athletic, artistic or academic teach many things: dedication to others and to learning a new skill. You widen your horizons. Incidentally no sport is year round. Tennis season for high school girls (in California runs to Thanksgiving.) is a finite time. So, when your child fills out their college applications they may or may not have ecs. That is for you, the child, school and coach to decide. But if you view any sport as just sitting there, wasting their precious time, you are shortchanging your child and the experience that could have.</p>

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<p>I have been to many swim meets over the years with my kids. One of the big ones in our area is a several day invitational with 12 or 13 teams. They leave school at 130 pm, get home somewhere between 9 and 10pm, each night for three days. These kids tend to swim in three or four events. That means, that there are hours and hours of down time. </p>

<p>The coaches actually encourage the kids to get their homework and studying done while at these meets. They do want the kids to get what they can, done - so that they can stay competitive athletically and academically. </p>

<p>Because the races are short, the kids can still cheer their teammates during the races, but few of these kids signed up to be “pep squad” or “cheerleaders”. They are competitors. There is something to be gained from watching them on their starts and finishes, but for the most part, watching isn’t going to make them better athletes. In this sport, swimming thousands of yards daily and technical training from their coaches helps them be better competitors. </p>

<p>It is interesting to see what different perspectives coaches and teachers have for students who participate in these ECs.</p>

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<p>littlegreenmom, I think it is different if attending an event for three full days than attending an after school tennis match as the OP indicated. </p>

<p>When my older D did Varsity team at her college for example, I was there for the week long National Championships. These girls were missing a week of school. Indeed, they brought homework to do after the 8-4 daily event. They did not do any homework during the competition though. But they did do it afterward. They had to. But they were also missing school. </p>

<p>That same child of mine did a tennis match after school in high school and would be out of it by 7 PM (usually then went on to another EC activity). I don’t think it is unreasonable that during the three hour event, the kids did not do homework, just like my other kid could not do homework at her theater rehearsal, even when her role was not onstage every minute. </p>

<p>I just don’t think it is the same with a three day weekend event as what the OP described.</p>

<p>By the way, my D did not sign on to be a cheerleader but she did sign on to be a teammate and good sportsmanship meant supporting her teammates and watching their part of the event when it wasn’t her turn to race or play the match. It was a TEAM sport. Everyone’s score mattered to the team. Everyone was there for everyone else. When you are on a varsity team, it is not just about your own part of the competition.</p>

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<p>It’s typical. My kids have been on teams where they have warmed the bench all season. Yet they still were expected to go to every game. If something should occur so that the first string player could not play, they need back up. It’s part of being on a sports team.</p>